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Old 09-05-2010, 05:03   #16
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I think they are 4 years old. There is no intention of RWS to publish newer charts of all the inland waterways of Holland only the two main axes North-South (Groningen-Rotterdam) and East-West (Lobith-Rotterdam). This will be outside of the RIS initiative. The new system will be FIS (Fairway ...)
The buoys and the like are certainly updated in most place's by the looks of it! FIS has not yet charts available..... Am I wrong?

Jan
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Old 09-05-2010, 06:16   #17
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Fis - Ris, should the wheel be reinvented???
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Old 09-05-2010, 06:24   #18
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Fis - Ris, should the wheel be reinvented???
Obviously!
Thats how the dutch civil servants keep themselves busy! Thats why you pay tax! Thats why you have to pay for a chart wich is complete only, when bought from Tresco!

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Old 09-05-2010, 06:31   #19
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Hoi Gerard,

For free charts; have a look at [IMG]file:///C:/Users/DeZwaan/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]Inland Waters Resources
You'll find Serb,Croat,Romanian, Cech and Swiss chart's for free!

The link moet zijn Inland Waters Resources
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Old 10-05-2010, 04:23   #20
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What I understand, it has to do with money and interest. The budget is down and the interest is mainly on hazardous cargo shipment ie Inland AIS. I do think that the cartography for inland waterways in Europe is more becoming a playing field for third parties instead of government. For the road we see the same.
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:05   #21
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I do think that the cartography for inland waterways in Europe is more becoming a playing field for third parties instead of government. For the road we see the same.
Well... As far as I understood the matter, is that the EU made it obligatory to issue IENC's for free use! A couple of country's simply did nothing, a couple complied, but Holland is stil not able to produce anything but a chart, for wich they will not be held responsible! Money in this matter is peanuts; the data is there! What else do they need, that is not already there?
Changing rules and laws, changing management and people all the time, is obviously of more importance then to produce a useable chart!

It is a shame!

Jan
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:12   #22
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Hi Dutch guys
just wanted to ask whether you don't have access to some other software able to show the missing objects under the cardinal topmarks shown on the screenshot? Of course it may be an error in the chart itself as well...

Pavel
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:40   #23
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Hi Dutch guys
just wanted to ask whether you don't have access to some other software able to show the missing objects under the cardinal topmarks shown on the screenshot? Of course it may be an error in the chart itself as well...

Pavel
Dear Pavel,

It's a bit weird..... The latest update of this area shows no buoys nor topmarks, as if they are no longer there! Mind you! These charts come with a warning; "Test charts, not to be trusted on!" They were marking a small depth of about 1.30mtr wich are usually marked!

However looking on other places on (another dutch enc) I found that using a Simplified view is showing topmarks only! See below..... Using Paper chart shows the buoy, but not the topmark! Funny that I've not seen that before....
I allso just noticed that the Paper chart shows the light character and the Simplified shows the name of the buoy!

It's a pity I don't have any other software to try this. But it seems obvious then, that there is a minor error in how Opencpn handles this chart....

Work to be done?

Jan
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Old 10-05-2010, 07:18   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan de Zwaan View Post
However looking on other places on (another dutch enc) I found that using a Simplified view is showing topmarks only! See below..... Using Paper chart shows the buoy, but not the topmark! Funny that I've not seen that before....
I allso just noticed that the Paper chart shows the light character and the Simplified shows the name of the buoy!
Note you are only modifying the display mode of the ENC file by clicking on "paper chart mode". IIRC the government issued Dutch charts don't show any depth data?
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Old 10-05-2010, 07:28   #25
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Note you are only modifying the display mode of the ENC file by clicking on "paper chart mode". IIRC the government issued Dutch charts don't show any depth data?
That's affirmative! The Dutch ENC's refuse, for one reason or another, to show the depths Don't ask why! Probably the commercial chartmakers will make a claim then, I reckon!

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Old 10-05-2010, 11:00   #26
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Dear Pavel,
It's a bit weird..... The latest update of this area shows no buoys nor topmarks, as if they are no longer there! Mind you! These charts come with a warning; "Test charts, not to be trusted on!" They were marking a small depth of about 1.30mtr wich are usually marked!
My screenshot comes from the chartset downloaded today, displayed in PAPER_CHART mode. While extending the presentation library I currently ignore the simplified mode alltogether as there's more than enough work with getting paper chart in shape.
Generally the dutch authorities employed quite a bit of anarchy while making those charts and it's a mixture of ENC, IENC and weird stuff - probably according to the opinion of a person mapping the particular area.

Quote:
However looking on other places on (another dutch enc) I found that using a Simplified view is showing topmarks only! See below..... Using Paper chart shows the buoy, but not the topmark! Funny that I've not seen that before....
I allso just noticed that the Paper chart shows the light character and the Simplified shows the name of the buoy!
What looks like a topmark in simplified mode is actually not a topmark but simplified symbol for the respective cardinal buoy, which accidentaly has the shape of a topmark The topmarks are generally ignored in the simplified view, which (together with ignoring the shape of the buoys etc.) actually makes it simplified idpnd is right that choosing paper chart or simplified is just a visual thing and has nothing to do with the fact whether we have the data to display or not.

Quote:
It's a pity I don't have any other software to try this. But it seems obvious then, that there is a minor error in how Opencpn handles this chart....
The only reference we have available is SeeMyENC, which I use pretty often when it's not clear to me how the symbology should look - at least we are wrong in a compatible way then

Quote:
Work to be done?
A lot! There's a lot of ways in which you can help. I will start from the easiest first so you can make your choice for what you feel brave enough The possibilities go from top to bottom as the needed amount of bravery, time and skills increases...

For all of them the Object Query in the right click menu is your best friend - if there are no data saying the buoy is red, we have no chance to paint it red etc.
  1. The easiest you can do is to look for the problems as it saves me some time wandering on the charts. Also finding a problem in your backyard is for sure a little easier... A good report here should contain enough info to localize the problem - the data from the object query window are more than good as they contain the position and the attributes of the object.
  2. I keep the latest version of the rasterization instructions at nohal's RleData at master - GitHub - downloading it regularly and testing using that will not only give you the latest eye-candy, but will help to catch the possible mistakes before the release is done.
  3. I've written an editor for the rasterization rules, which can be found at OpenCPN - Rasterization Rules Editor - Redmine It makes editing the rules manageable by people with a sub-superman level of skills but still expects some insight into the problem. Feel free to play with it and ask questions and when you feel like you can do something like OpenCPN - Implementing a missing symbol - Redmine let me know as we will have to involve a little bit of coordination here not to modify the same stuff at the same time. I would be especially happy if someone took care of the missing rules for the notice marks found on the dutch charts.
Hope you survived such a long post

Pavel
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Old 10-05-2010, 19:54   #27
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It's a pity I don't have any other software to try this. But it seems obvious then, that there is a minor error in how Opencpn handles this chart....

The only reference we have available is SeeMyENC, which I use pretty often when it's not clear to me how the symbology should look - at least we are wrong in a compatible way then
I have here a "commercial package" with charts that could be an other reference.

Pavel,
i'm with you on your mail and will dive into the options the next few days to see if i fully understand and can be of some help

Bart
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