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Old 17-08-2012, 15:38   #61
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

rgleason: Your understanding of the route/track concept is absolutely correct.
And as you conclude yourself the route timing using boat polars you're thinking about is about the same as actually doing the full weather routing for that route. Which is what QtVlm is doing and that's not moving into Ocpn.

Wind routing is just one input into a complex equation that takes into account the ship and crew capabilities, tides and prevailing currents, planning changes, breakdowns, etc, not to mention changes in actual and forecast weather plus local systems too small to be captured in the GRIBs. Personally I think the functionality we have now serves to provide good enough data for that input. So I'm not planning any further work in this area for now.
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Old 17-08-2012, 16:22   #62
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

JesperWe, I totally understand the effort expended and am very appreciative.

Just for my understanding, does OpenCPN simply use the one boat speed setting under Route Properties? - Yes it seems like that is the way it works. This is observation is not addressed to you, but it seems to me that at a minimum, each leg should be capable of being individually set by the user and at present it does not appear to be manually settable:
1. Users in general should be able to override and set each leg based upon their judgement of wind, tide, waves, arrival planning and other factors. This would benefit both sail and power users in planning.
2. That feature would also enable you to create a "smarter" paste of planned routes from QtVLM at some point in the future.

I note that "Tracks" are perhaps an alternative way to store planning type - time based routes from QtVLM, and perhaps pasting into OCPN an "optimized" "track" is the best way to go.

I also note that in OCPN 3.0.2 Route Properties - Entry of Departure time does not seem to be saved. Maybe it is something I am not doing. I expected entry of that to cause another field to display that would give arrival time and date for each waypoint, but perhaps that was not the intent.

Thanks again to everyone involved in the QtVLM transfer project!
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Old 17-08-2012, 16:23   #63
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

Jesper..

Stop splitting words here... the fact is.. the pasted optimized route has a mouse over flag for each waypoint in the route as per my attached screendump. What is missing is the direction/course which is also contained in the pasted .kml file.

I would also have liked to have the same mouse over flag for each wpt in the Track version, with the addittion of the date/time and speed which is also contained in the pasted .kml file. The wptīs could be indicated by just a dot and wpt number.

Another more serious matter is that the wpt numbers of the pasted optimized track is not co-ordinated with the OpenCPN Track properties. Even the start of the track has different times in the pasted track and the time displayed in the Track properties.

Tore
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Old 17-08-2012, 16:44   #64
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

Dear Tore,
I know you intended to thank JesperWe too. We are talking about volunteer time here. JesperWe's done a great service to us all and I am sure its going to get better in time. I wish I was able to program in these new languages, but I am probably too rusty to be effective. Someday, I'll try it when I know more about the program.
Best
Rick
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Old 17-08-2012, 16:53   #65
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

rgleason..

Pleased to have you on board! Of course we owe unmesurable thanks to our program gurus but where would we be without inputs and testing by the experienced users?
We donīt always use the same terminology but reason usually prevails.

Tore
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Old 17-08-2012, 17:23   #66
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

Thanks Tore, I have noted your perceptions, and motivation in support of OCPN too.... speaking of which... should I be downloading the current beta and testing it? I guess I could 3.0.2 and the current beta.. I've got a lot to learn.
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Old 17-08-2012, 23:07   #67
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinbad7 View Post
Stop splitting words here... the fact is.. the pasted optimized route has a mouse over flag for each waypoint in the route as per my attached screendump. What is missing is the direction/course which is also contained in the pasted .kml file.
I'm not splitting words, I am trying to describe the situation correctly to make you understand why it is not simple to implement what you are asking for.

The fact that Google Earth has waypoint mouse-overs does not magically make OpenCPN have them. We simple do not have this feature at all for waypoints or tracks (only for route legs) which means that there is no place where I could display the information you are asking for.

It could be implemented of course but that is a lot of work and I am prioritizing other stuff for my time. For now you will have to be satisfied with what we have. Use double click on waypoints to see the data, which is in the description field.
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Old 18-08-2012, 11:26   #68
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

Jesper..

Quote:
Use double click on waypoints to see the data, which is in the description field.
Which waypoints? There are none displayed in the Track.

I donīt think I am asking for the impossible,only that the Track is displayed in the same way as OpenCpn displays the Route,instead of a plain line with no points of reference. And that the yellow box also displays the received Track info on mouse-over.

I asked the same question of the developers of the Android based OruxMaps and it was implemented overnight.

Perhaps some time in the future when you have more time?

Thanks for all your efforts,much appreciated.

Tore
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Old 18-08-2012, 16:49   #69
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

To avoid having too many WPs on a route, once a routing has been converted in a route, you can do route->edit->simplify. If you absolutly want to pass through a WP even if it cost some time, you can mark it as "not simplifiable" before. The routing does that automatically when a WP is close too land, so a simplification of a route issued from a routing normally does not remove points that are useful to avoid coasts.
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Old 19-08-2012, 06:56   #70
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

Maitai, that is helpful information, using route simplify. You would then be able to bring the simplified route into OpenCPN, and follow it (the data and times for Wpts will change, I believe, to be based upon the global boat speed setting in OCPN).

Currently, if you want the QtVLM planned arrival times at waypoints to be available in OCPN you must transfer a track. That is where Tore's suggestion above would be helpful.

Also sometime in the future, it would be good if in OCPN we could set the speed for individual legs of a route. Then it would be possible to make a transfer algorithm / code which pastes a simplified route into OCPN with waypoint times that are the same as what QtVLM has optimized and calculated.
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Old 19-08-2012, 07:30   #71
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

rgleason...

IMHO, if the functionality of route optimization and interfacing to QtVlm needs additional features, then we need to be looking for a PlugIn implementation to do that.

We probably should avoid further "feature-creep" in the OpenCPN base code as regards this infrequently used extension to O's basic utility.

Thanks
Dave
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Old 19-08-2012, 09:51   #72
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

Sure, I can understand why feature creep to base code is difficult, other things break.

Being able to adjust the speed of each leg separately benefits both sail and power users, by allowing them to exercise realistic judgements about conditions and is really a base functionality IMHO , no matter how you wish to implement it.

Rick
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Old 19-08-2012, 14:38   #73
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

Dave,

I agree with Rick and Tor that being able to assign a speed to each leg of a route should be a basic functionality in planning a route.

I have watched O evolve from a great small boat navigation tool to a more general marine navigation application. It has been very interesting to watch this evolution. However, I too must admit to wondering from time to time about O losing its simplicity and maybe some of its robustness. But, adding leg speed to routes is so fundamental that it must be included.

Thanks,

Paul

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Old 19-08-2012, 15:05   #74
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

Jesper/Dave..

The pasted optimized Track from qtVlm can use the Route from Track facility in the Route manager to convert to a suitable Route with only the necessary number of visible waypoints. I only ask that Course between the waypoints are added to the mouse-over pop-up as both Course and Distance is important for a quick update under way.

Both Route and Track managers continues to display their individual data for more detailed information. The Export Track facility presently only exports lat/lon,wpt number,and date/time, although both Course and Speed,are also available. It would be very useful if also course and speed could be added to the exported file in .kml format for later study.

Quote:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<gpx version="1.1" creator="OpenCPN" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1" xmlns:gpxx="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensions/v3" xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd" xmlnspencpn="http://www.opencpn.org">
<trk>
<name>Routing1 path</name>
<extensions>
<opencpn:start></opencpn:start>
<opencpn:end></opencpn:end>
<opencpn:viz>1</opencpn:viz>
<opencpn:guid>3d7f0000-44d6-46f5-92e7-399834410000</opencpn:guid>
</extensions>
<trkseg>
<trkpt lat="57.769085793" lon="10.679574374">
<time>2012-08-19T14:37:25Z</time>
<name>001</name>
</trkpt>
<trkpt lat="57.760200959" lon="10.690704774">
<time>2012-08-19T14:42:25Z</time>
<name>002</name>
</trkpt>
So all I ask is:

1. Include Course in the Route waypoint pop-up yellow flags

2. Include Course and Speed in the exported Track .kml files

Tore
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Old 23-08-2012, 07:45   #75
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Re: Integration with QtVlm - Data files and import/export

Jesper..

Both of the pasted files from OCPN,Route and Track are missing the TWD and TWS received from
qtVlm. This is valuable information which should also be available in OCPN.
Exporting/saving/pasting a Route or Track file from OCPN consequently does NOT contain this information. WHY?

As mentioned in my earlier posting COURSE is missing in the Route wpt pop-up flag on a mouse-over,and both COURSE ane SPEED are missing in the Track.kml file.

Another point with the pasted qtVlm Track file is that the TWD uses an unauthorized character to indicate ° which looks like a minituarized īM` but is not recognized by any XML editor.

Hopefully this will be corrected in a future version.

Tore
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