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Old 15-09-2015, 00:59   #1
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Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

Hi,

Fairly new to OpenCPN but a seasoned SeaClear user .

Recently bought a boat and got a Garmin GPSMAP 292 as part of that.

Trying to connect to the GPS with the ambition to exchange routes and waypoints.

Has a comport that connects to the GPS using Garmin host mode.
Technical connectivity verified with the G7ToWIN utility that can be used with Seaclear, as well as NMEA mode where OPENCPN connects fine and picks up the position etc.

The normal mode for the GPS is NMEA since this is required for the VHF and others who would like to know where the boat is located

The PC has internal GPS so that part is not an issue, I would simply like to switch the GPS to Garmin host mode and send routes to is from OpenCPN.

I have two connections setup COM6 for the NMEA internally in the PC and then COM7 for the Garmin mode.

I have set all switches to GRMN mode and expected it to work straight away as everything else, but no luck.

The log file gives the following:

12:30:21 AM: Opening NMEA Datastream Serial:COM7
12:30:21 AM: Detected display size: 310 mm
12:30:21 AM: Detected display size: 310 mm
12:30:58 AM: Initializing Chart C:\data\Program Files\SeaClear\charts\.....
12:31:51 AM: Closing NMEA Datastream Serial:COM7
12:31:51 AM: Stopping Garmin Serial thread
12:31:52 AM: Stopped in 1 sec.
12:31:55 AM: Garmin GPS could not be initialized on port: COM7 Error Code is -4
LastGarminError is:
12:31:55 AM: Opening NMEA Datastream Serial:COM7
12:32:18 AM: Closing NMEA Datastream Serial:COM7
12:32:18 AM: Stopping Garmin Serial thread
12:32:20 AM: Stopped in 2 sec.
12:32:23 AM: Garmin GPS could not be initialized on port: COM7 Error Code is -4
LastGarminError is:
12:32:23 AM: Opening NMEA Datastream Serial:COM7
12:33:06 AM: Closing NMEA Datastream Serial:COM7
12:33:06 AM: Stopping Garmin Serial thread
12:33:09 AM: Stopped in 3 sec.
12:33:09 AM: Opening NMEA Datastream Serial:COM7
12:33:09 AM: Detected display size: 310 mm
12:33:09 AM: Detected display size: 310 mm
12:33:18 AM: Closing NMEA Datastream Serial:COM7
12:33:18 AM: Stopping Garmin Serial thread
12:33:21 AM: Stopped in 3 sec.
12:33:24 AM: Garmin GPS could not be initialized on port: COM7 Error Code is -4
LastGarminError is:

A bit puzzled with the opening NMEA datastream, but I get the impression that this is always present on a com port, correct?.
At least the NMEA selection is greyed out when setting up connections.

Using Version 4.0.0 Build 2015-01-08

The Garmin is on an old firmware 2.70 but updating that is not easy since it is Garmin Datacard format and a USB adapter for that is hard to find or where found they have a price that rules that out

On the other hand the export and import of tracks and routes works using the G7ToWin utility talking to the GPS in Garmin host mode.. But the OpenCPN is so much nicer and both G7ToWin and Seaclear are not actively maintained --> I strive for OpenCPN as the prime alternative.

Any ideas on what to test is appreciated

Unfortunately I did not capture the NMEA log, will that contain any info about the dialogue using Garmin host mode?

Thanks

Housedad
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Old 17-09-2015, 09:10   #2
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

"-4" is not a big help is it
but a few ideas that I always try first are:

Make sure only one application is accessing the nmea comport- that would be opencpn ,of course. shut down G72win or anything else that knows about that comport.
Try again. I am guessing the idea of O's grm mode is to send "sentences" that the grmn recognizes as proprietary ones. Garmin is big on "proprietary".

If that's not it...
Maybe turn off grmn host mode and just leave it as nmea. Then use O's right-click "send to gps". This worked for me on a Garmin12xl which may or may not be an exception.
Mind you, they just show up on the garmin as wpt001,wpt002 etc.

The old garmins have a 6character limit on wpts so it could get messy.
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Old 17-09-2015, 10:15   #3
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

Which cable are you using? It MUST be the data cable, not just a charging cable. Garmin makes both. PS: Never had a 292 so don't know the details.
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Old 17-09-2015, 12:18   #4
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

Are we back to the issue of O not receiving the protocol from the Garmin, so that O does not know what protocol to use to send the Garmin the data?

You may need to look at an intermediate program like EasyGPS. Save a GPX of the route on your pc. Open the GPX in EasyGPS and send to the Garmin 292, which is one of the recognised GPS machines in the EasyGPS program.

The plotter needs to be in Garmin mode, not NMEA, to receive the data.

Sorry to mention EasyGPS so many times but it has done the job for me several times, transferring both route and waypoints.

Mike
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Old 20-09-2015, 11:59   #5
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

@HappySeagull
O is the only thing running , and as suggested in later replys, as far as I know NMEA is a oneway street with Garmin. It needs to be in Garmin mode to be able to receive.

@rgleason, I'm connecting to the NMEA "bus" on the boat, which in our case is the fixed line beween the Garmin and the rest. This is a combocabel and we receive NMEA from Garmin e.g. to the VHF:s DSC function and with other programs we can send and receive Garmin host mode, i.e. I think we can rule out the cable.

@Mike/Rasbats, yes we can take that detour but then I think inline send to GPS from SeaClear is more slick, we have that working but prefer the O:s UI and other features before Seaclaer, and as stated Seaclear and the connecting software is old and not maintained(you could say stable )
I'm not quite sure I follow you statement arount protocol, do you mean that OPenCPN and the GPS should start by negotiating and agreeing on capabilities before initiating transfer? In that case it mightbe a version issue withthegarmin firmware (or whatever you should call the iternal software of the GPS).


Thanks for your responses, anyone who knows what versions of Garmin software has been tested with OpenCPN?

Garmins documentation is quite old, but I gues what they write is still working....

/Housedad
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Old 21-09-2015, 04:24   #6
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

Do we need a feature request in Tracker? Or is it a problem with setting the connection properly Under settings? - Perhaps you should do a search for garmin connections or look in the manual to confirm you have it right. If so the maybe it is a new bug.
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Old 21-09-2015, 14:21   #7
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Do we need a feature request in Tracker? Or is it a problem with setting the connection properly Under settings? - Perhaps you should do a search for garmin connections or look in the manual to confirm you have it right. If so the maybe it is a new bug.
You might be right. I have searched the manual as well as the forum for quite some hours and found a few old treads for prior versions of OpenCPN, where -4 error code has been resolved.

I hope I'm correct in that the whole communications part was redesigned in version 4.0 and hence the older versions will not give me any guidance.

I'd like to think that it is only a mistake in the setup, remains to be seen. Unfortunately I have one place to test the setup i.e. in the boat --> I need to go there to try new alternatives.
I have also read the Garmin Device Interface specifikation downloadable from Garmin, but this is a document dated 2006, reliable?
Anyway my device is not listed in the doc.

The document does not cover any error codes, but states that use of unsupported functions will just drop dead..
So I guess -4 error code is generated within OpenCPN.

Will continue testing, might dowload source to have a peak and at a later stage file a bug or feature in the tracker

/Housedad
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Old 21-09-2015, 21:10   #8
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

housedad,

Suggest you Try this earlier suggestion first from Mike Rasbats:
Quote:
You may need to look at an intermediate program like EasyGPS. Save a GPX of the route on your pc. Open the GPX in EasyGPS and send to the Garmin 292, which is one of the recognised GPS machines in the EasyGPS program.

The plotter needs to be in Garmin mode, not NMEA, to receive the data.
Also give us the setup > connections settings you are using please.
I have successfully connected a Garmin GPS 48 but that is all. I do not believe Garmin has changed their "host" garmin mode.
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Old 21-09-2015, 23:18   #9
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

I read the manual section below again and came up with the testcase of not having any connection defined aimed at the Garmin, will have a NMEA connection to the internal GPS of the Laptop and nothing else defined.

Might visit the boat toningt CET, then I can also screenshot the setups tested and share them.

I have tested import from GPS via gpx, works fine. As stated I also have one other setup that is more convinient compared with the multistep flow of using EasyGPS or similar.

Any extra logging for the export that can be turned on via the ini file?

Quote:
Sending Routes and Waypoints to a GPS
Quote:
Quote:
  • The feature "Send to GPS", which appears in the right click menus for waypoints and routes and in the Route Manager, is not linked to connections. The upload port does not even need to appear in the Datastream connections list. Its a completely separate concept. For this reason users must define a separate upload port, that is remembered by OpenCPN. The port can be changed by clicking the button in the Route Manager.
  • NMEA provides no handshake protocol for Route and Waypoint upload. So, OpenCPN simply sends the Route/WP information out on the port, without having any way to know if there is actually a device connected to the port.
  • The Garmin protocol does provide handshaking, so OpenCPN can be sure that the information is uploaded correctly. The Garmin protocol will fail if the device is not a Garmin.
  • In the case of standard NMEA, the indication "Route successfully uploaded"
    is not very meaningful. You can say that it just means that a port was found,
    and writing to that port succeeded.
  • In the case of "hockey puck" GPS receivers, they probably ignore Route and WP uploads, since there is nothing for them to do with this information anyway.
  • The key to remember is that Route and Waypoint upload process is completely independent of normal running Datastream operation. They are two separate sub-systems.
  • It does no harm to assign the Datastream GPS port as an output and input device together. Some users might reasonably expect that this would be required for Route and W/P uploads. Most GPS receivers would ignore input sentences other than Route and W/P uploads anyway.
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Old 22-09-2015, 04:08   #10
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

I will try connecting my garmin colorado to opencpn in several days.
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Old 22-09-2015, 23:54   #11
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

Tested a few new things yesterday night at the boat, unfortunately no success.

The statement in the manual that the connections for upload is isolated from the configured connections is not correct I think. The use GRMN mode setting on the connections tab influences the behavior.
With no connection configured the upload looks successful, but ny guess is that is just send NMEA route info to whom ever is concerned. No handshake.

If you check the Garmin GRMN checkbox it will tell me that no Garmin is connected.

I use COM7 at 9600 as instructed by the Garmin manual.
COM7 is actually a USB to serial converter.

Any other software tried works at the first try, I have success with G7ToWin, EasyGPS and one other that I forgot the name of.

Via G7ToWin you can issue command to the GPS, e.g. ask it to return the supported protocols.

In my case this returns:



I'm inclined to believe that the Garmin interface in OpenCPN does not support my GPSMAP 292.

The protocols above can be deciphered using the Garmin SDK:
http://www.garmin.com/support/pdf/IOSDK.zip

How can I find out what the interface is constructed to support?

/Housedad
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Old 23-09-2015, 04:53   #12
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

Housedad
You have done some digging, learned and made some discoveries. I am inclined to agree with you. I will still try my garmin colorado perhaps that will help us figure it out.
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Old 23-09-2015, 09:14   #13
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

This might be useful.
NMEA_0183-GARMIN.pdf
Seems this is important per sentences: "These
proprietary sentences begin with the characters, “$PGRM”, instead of the characters “$G” that are typical of the standard NMEA 0183 sentences".

I am wondering....I don't remember ever having a comport with two speeds in/out in case you do it might be important.... 4800 is what I recall for nmea, but I am not using DB9 serial port much these days.
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Old 23-09-2015, 09:27   #14
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappySeagull View Post
This might be useful.
Attachment 109714
Seems this is important per sentences: "These
proprietary sentences begin with the characters, $PGRM, instead of the characters $G that are typical of the standard NMEA 0183 sentences".

I am wondering....I don't remember ever having a comport with two speeds in/out in case you do it might be important.... 4800 is what I recall for nmea, but I am not using DB9 serial port much these days.
HappySeagull,

I have read that document it is also a part of the GPSMAP documentation (description of the Garmin proprietary sentences), still as I understand it is still NMEA but homegrown sentences.

What we would like to have running is a non NMEA protocol defined by Garmin, that is as I understand it the only way to send Routes and waypoints to the Garmin device.

Regarding the COM port speed it is one speed per port as I know it, it is always 4800 for NMEA, but for the Garmin protocol it is advised to run 9.600.

/Housedad
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Old 23-09-2015, 14:13   #15
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Re: Garmin GPSMAP 292 and OpenCPN connection problems

Quote:
What we would like to have running is a non NMEA protocol defined by Garmin, that is as I understand it the only way to send Routes and waypoints to the Garmin device.
What I would like is if Garmin and the rest could cooperate a bit. Garmins,Magellans and TomToms the one thing they share is "Wanting-To-Be-By-Themselves"and synching across "racial" lines is not encouraged without a software as umpire in the middle. I'm impressed O takes this on, beyond standard open protocols. But it gets to be like a rowboat that needs ten sizes of oarlocks and of course, next year's are going to be "up-dated"....
If it can't be synched to O as per the general run of Garmin that O does work with, then it seems like a plugin that caters to it (and some of its eclectic brethren) would be the way to go for all this "garminella".
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