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Old 27-10-2015, 21:55   #61
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Marqus...
Dave's nick is bdbcat, you can also have a look at the commit log at https://github.com/OpenCPN/OpenCPN/commits/master
And don't ask about the man-hours it takes to keep this running, I stopped counting them years ago...

Pavel
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Old 27-10-2015, 22:16   #62
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Pavel, sounds like you yourself have also been lifting some weight at your keyboard for quite a while - so a sincere thank-you for your work as well.

Having, in the past, been the chairman of a technical association on a strictly volunteer basis for a few years, I know about "volunteer hours" and have absolutely no issue if a bit of compensation flowed to heavy lifters like Dave and yourself given that the product you work on is successfully "in production".
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Old 28-10-2015, 04:06   #63
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Given the nuances of porting to Android and the ongoing need to support the OA software, fix & improve, it is a wonder that bdcat took it on. I must say that Sean did spend some time on getting wxwigets working (somewhat) with qt which gave opencpn users and programmers a ray of hope that a port could be done! I certainly do not know all the details or understand them all, but we are all very lucky to be able to run O on Android. O exists because of Dave. O is a robust and strong software and community because of the commitment of many people working cooperatively and together. It is a rather remarkable force which can be fun and frustrating.
One of the benefits of porting to Android may be to expand the use and community of OpenCPN and to solidify its position in the world of navigation programs. I think bdcat saw the number of potential android users and decided it had to be done. I am supporting Dave's version as that is the one I trust most on my cell phone. I do hope the name differences can resolved quickly, so that those of us who prefer Dave's version can access updates and not have our phones compromised by another version. This is a huge disservice to the entire community and if I had done that, I would be really really embarassed and apologetic. I am glad steps are being taken to fix this problem quickly. It is a very unfortunate situation that helps no one.

Should I run O on my phone or will it upgrade improperly?
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Old 28-10-2015, 05:34   #64
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Marqus,
There are other good posts and threads which discuss what open source software is. Search for some of Pavel's recent posts. As I understand it, OpenCPN is open source because the code is available publicly (on git) to download and compile. Look at MxMariner which is also available on Android Play which I believe does have its roots in OpenCPN. OpenCPN "OA" Android version by bdcat is really no different, I believe.
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Old 28-10-2015, 06:40   #65
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

MX Mariner on Android has been a good backup for me for several years now. Stable and easy to use. However, it supports raster charts only as far as I know. Vector charts are my preference especially on a small screen.

I now have MX and OA on my phone. And was lucky to get OA during the 23rd hour of the 24 hour pre-release offer of the Play Store version. OA is looking very good for vector charts on my humble phone.

Also have turned off auto updates in the Play Store settings so my phone doesn't go update crazy every time wifi is available.

Will add a shootout for PolarView on Mac laptops as well. Great graphics for vector charts. Looking forward to an Android version.

Many thanks to the prime people behind O, you have done an awesome job.
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Old 28-10-2015, 07:44   #66
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

True MX Mariner is raster only. I have the 23 hr version, but decided to install OpenCPN "OA" paid download because I want to stay current and would like to support the effort.

I will turn off updates on the playstore. Thanks.
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Old 28-10-2015, 09:52   #67
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

CCed from my reply in the other thread:

This discussion is not about Dave's contribution to the project or the Android port and it's neither about being willing to pay $10. If Dave (or anyone else) wants to add 3 versions on Play Store, with $10, $100 and $1000 price tags, they're free to do so. However, they are not free to restrict the user's rights in free software, i.e. to pass it on to others.

In detail:

As Dave has confirmed somewhere else, the "Maison Automatique" version of OpenCPN is his, with the following changes:
  • Dave's "licensing strategy" has been removed
  • The icons and capitalization of the app name have been changed to distinguish it from his version
  • It has been "repackaged" for distribution on the Play Store from a different account

As the software is otherwise identical to Dave's version, it can't be any more or less harmful or buggy than his version.

Dave has also confirmed that this republishing is legal.

The License Check and GPL Compliance

By adding a license check into the software and thereby restricting the user's rights to freely pass on OpenCPN to others, Dave is violating the OpenCPN "GPLv2" license (see section 6 of GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE | Official OpenCPN Homepage).

With this license check removed, the Maison Automatique version is currently the only GPL-compliant OpenCPN app on the Play Store. If you want to be on the safe side and pay Dave for his work, use the free version and use this link to send Dave $10 (or even more!): http://sourceforge.net/donate/index.php?group_id=180842

Background & Motivation:

The main idea behind the GPL is to keep free software free, i.e. that whenever someone has obtained a GPL licensed program (no matter how!), they also receive certain unrevokeable and unrestrictable rights, mainly the rights
  • to redistribute it freely and in any form,
  • to modify it as long as they document the changes and
  • to obtain the source code to the program from the original author.

Examples? The GPL is also used by the Linux kernel and the majority of the programs forming the ecosystem used to develop and furnish OpenCPN. Your Android phone wouldn't exist without GPL'ed software. Embedded devices like your WiFi router or Blueray player? Powered by GPL'ed software. This website? Delivered to you by GPL'ed software as well.

If you want to join the discussion, read the OpenCPN license first.

As much as I appreciate the work of Dave and everyone else's contribution to the project (as a developer, tester, document author, community supporter, OpenCPN evangelist, etc), we have to keep in mind that OpenCPN is also based on code written by many, many, many others. It's not just the source code and check-ins you see on GitHub. OpenCPN is incorporating millions of lines from third party modules to do the heavy lifting, some of which are licensed under exactly the same terms as OpenCPN. By incorporating the license check, Dave is not just ignoring other author's contribution to OpenCPN, but he's also violating their rights and the license given to him (and passed on to you).

In summary:

By buying Dave's current version, you're buying into unlicensed software and are encouraging software piracy.

As to some various accusations by yachtvalhalla about me having "corrupted [..] the official app" and "putting Google Play into a tailspin", you may want to ask him for the facts (it's not his strength, I know). All I can say is that I'm neither practicing voodoo or any other rites, nor have I contacted Google or any other party about the license violations or encouraged anyone to do so.

If you would ask me to make a guess, I would point to companies like Qt. Their software is used as the foundation of OpenCPN and they operate a dual licensing scheme, i.e. you can either use their software for free if your project is fully GPL compliant, or you can pay them $$$$ if it's not. They probably scan every new submission to the Play Store in an attempt to (rightfully!) monetize their work.

Looking Ahead:

I'll continue to publish free, GPL-compliant OpenCPN builds for Android, and if necessary, other platforms, even if it's for my own pleasure. If they work for you, be my guest. If you're not happy with that, I'll ask you politely to STFU and move on. I really do appreciate that users will have the option to buy into Dave's (or anyone else's, for that matter) extended support plans - for whatever they would like to charge for their services and I encourage everyone to contribute to the project, be it as a developer, financially or by installing the software and maps on your mates devices and supporting them in getting started.
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Old 28-10-2015, 11:08   #68
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Yens...
Did anybody ever try to stop you from distributing what you distribute? All people asked for was the source for what you did not clearly mark as a simple binary copy of Dave's older build products. Once you explained that, everybody seems happy to me.

I greatly appreciate your offer to take over the packaging for other platforms from me as it consumes a lot of time I could better spend writing code, please point me to your PPA when ready. For Windows and OS X packages I'm open to any proposition of a publishing workflow that suits you.

Thanks

Pavel
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Old 28-10-2015, 11:41   #69
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
Yens...
Did anybody ever try to stop you from distributing what you distribute?
Yes, and some still do (e.g. yachtvalhalla seems to have flagged me on the store)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
All people asked for was the source for what you did not clearly mark as a simple binary copy of Dave's older build products. Once you explained that, everybody seems happy to me.
Sorry, that was a misunderstanding between the two of us and I agree it's all sorted, but a lot of folks ain't happy still.

In case you want to link to the APKs, I've started to collect everything here: http://bit.ly/opencpn-android

I've also changed the descriptions on the play store to point to all the available resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
I greatly appreciate your offer to take over the packaging for other platforms from me
Sorry, I thought it would be obvious that I don't intend to package stuff for platforms I don't use. To clarify: Where/whenever I build an installer for my own pleasure, I'm happy to share my work with everyone else.

To get back into working mode: Are you the right person to contact when I have finished build scripts for the Android versions?
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Old 28-10-2015, 12:03   #70
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yens View Post
Sorry, I thought it would be obvious that I don't intend to package stuff for platforms I don't use. To clarify: Where/whenever I build an installer for my own pleasure, I'm happy to share my work with everyone else.
Ah, sorry, I understood your "I'll continue to publish free, GPL-compliant OpenCPN builds for Android, and if necessary, other platforms" as an offer to actually do it.
Quote:
To get back into working mode: Are you the right person to contact when I have finished build scripts for the Android versions?
Send a normal pull request on github as all the other contributors do, please.
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Old 28-10-2015, 13:04   #71
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Quote:
I greatly appreciate your offer to take over the packaging for other platforms from me as it consumes a lot of time I could better spend writing code, please point me to your PPA when ready. For Windows and OS X packages I'm open to any proposition of a publishing workflow that suits you.
Pavel, please don't do any of that, it makes me very nervous, for many reasons, and I do not want to go into it here! I'm just a user, but I run from these types of people.
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Old 28-10-2015, 13:09   #72
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Pavel, please don't do any of that, it makes me very nervous, for many reasons, and I do not want to go into it here! I'm just a user, but I run from these types of people.
Rick...
I'm getting tired of this, from both sides. I have absolutely no reason to think Yens has any bad intentions and unless he shows them, I will treat him as innocent. That so far he has shown nothing that benefits OpenCPN as a project definitely does not mean he can't.

Pavel
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Old 28-10-2015, 13:12   #73
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Ok, I'll hold out some hope. I am tired of it to.
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Old 28-10-2015, 13:16   #74
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

The good news is: Dave has removed the licensing checks and all dependencies to Google Vending from the OpenCPN source and included an offer to supply the source code, making the app fully GPL-compliant. The app was also renamed to "OpenCPN Mobile". Stay tuned for some 'official' announcements...
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Old 28-10-2015, 13:57   #75
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Re: Free Android OpenCPN new download location. OpenCPNce help needed.

Yens...

- So can you tell us why you went into a guerrilla war instead of discussing your objections and arguments in advance? - don't think I expect "constructive critics". Critics and arguments are well placed if they show weaknesses or wrong argumentations. Don't have to support. If something is wrong it is wrong. And nobody never had any objections to debate stuff with an open visor in this forum.

- So now you are proud about what? Having withdrawn a lot of efforts from the development to "I'm a White Knight" stuff debates?

- You think as an user of OCPN anybody of the developers or practical supporters does owe you something? Evangelist??

- Hiding behind a pseudonym why? A private crusade what for?
And don't come now with GPL: see point 1


Finally a personal comment:
You spoiled my evenings over the last days.
And you did make harm to Dave.
I don't want to see you here anymore.
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