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Old 17-03-2014, 10:30   #1
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Exporting (all) waypoints etc.

In recent editions the "Export All" button has been replaced with "Export All Visible".

No doubt it is a useful and nice-to-have addition. Just two observations around this change:

1. Export can no longer be used to make a full backup of nav objects. Full backup can now be done with an offline copy of the relevant file. Some extra effort is needed to prepare an easy to use backup procedure. Not a very big deal, but not so obvious for casual user ... maybe keep the good old "Export All", visible or not, as the backup tool, in parallel to "All Visible" ...

2. "Export All Visible" does indeed just this - including the visible layer objects. Originally "Export All" did not export layer objects at all. I think including layer objects in the export set may lead to problems when importing the files back at a later time. It would be much cleaner to always keep the layer objects completely separate from the regular objects. I would like to think of layer objects as part of the chart data space rather than nav objects data space. The current functionality can indeed be useful for selecting parts of a layer without using external tools, but I am not sure the potential confusion makes this worthwhile.

The second point is definitely more important... I notice there is protection built in not to import a waypoint on top of its existing layered counterpart (but not the other way around). Nevertheless, I'm afraid the relationships may become too complex, if the layer world is not kept well apart.

Simpler is safer.

From the Help contents I can see that exporting layers is indeed documented, but I do not quite see why... a layer is always already in its own file in a well known place... take the file, if needed ... what am I missing here?
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Old 17-03-2014, 12:37   #2
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Re: Exporting (all) waypoints etc.

Layers are not simple.
It can be useful to export some or all of the layer along with normal wpts and routes .and it is also a fast way to edit and correct the layer itself, without wrecking the original.

BUT I'd agree there are difficulties....One thing I see IS difficult per the layers and that is if you do, for instance, export some or ALL of the visible layer as a gpx and then re-import it into the route manager (wiped clean if you like), it will not appear! even if the visibility is off on the original layer you took those marks from...That is to say, if the new/old wpt exists in a layer,with Visibility "On" or "Off" ,they cannot be loaded. You must take the layer gpx entirely out of the folder to see your edited version. I haven't tested this much to see what changes are needed to the gpx...maybe to the waypoint names maybe-to make it load concurrent with the layer...but this might be a head-banger someday for me. (I'd better make a note of it!)

as to "Export All" as you describe it(No Layers), I'd agree I missed it when it disappeared. But the Selectability and Visibility functions came at about the same time it disappeared and I like them more, if it comes to a trade.
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Old 18-03-2014, 14:00   #3
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Re: Exporting (all) waypoints etc.

I keep tracks waypoints, routes, tracks, and layers in different folders, and would like to export from only the selected tab (e.g. if the WP tab is selected "Export TAB" would only WP's)

If all WP's, tracks, routes, and layers originated in OpenCPN there would be no reason to keep them separate; however they come from many sources and I like to keep them separate.
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Old 19-03-2014, 06:40   #4
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Re: Exporting (all) waypoints etc.

Thanks Happy & David for sharing your experience.

The visibility/skipping of objects on reimport can now get very complex indeed.

To work on some layer contents, the file can be imported as regular gpx, edited, and exported at will... It only starts being a layer if placed in the special directory or imported via a special button. Until then it should not really matter if this is intended as a layer or not.

A layer is a simple chart implemented in GPX.

I also felt sometimes the need to separate routes, tracks and waypoints, but that is another story...

Looks like another simple dialog is needed, with some ticks for what to include in an export set: rte, trk, wpt, lay, vis only, don't ask again, etc .... so everyone can set the preferences right.
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Old 19-03-2014, 12:45   #5
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Re: Exporting (all) waypoints etc.

Quote:
I keep tracks waypoints, routes, tracks, and layers in different folders, and would like to export from only the selected tab (e.g. if the WP tab is selected "Export TAB" would only WP's)
Yes, I do that too...and maybe each page could have its own buttons so that Wpts(marks as I call them),routes,and tracks don't get bundled together as an export...they might even have a default Prefix in the name of the gpx..RTE,MARK,TRK as I do now. ...However, what if it was WANTED to bundle them together?
Because After the change was made, someone will pop up with this logical complaint:
"Man, I'm tired of keeping track of my Holy Harbour gpx backups as three separate files! I have to load all three files every time! Wouldn't it be easier to just export them as a single file? "
So I think the (present) option to do so should remain if your idea got implemented.

"A layer is a simple chart implemented in GPX.", is a good way to think of them...

Quote:
"To work on some layer contents, the file can be imported as regular gpx, edited, and exported at will... It only starts being a layer if placed in the special directory or imported via a special button.
"... if I remember I can't "work on some layer contents" in such a way as to actually see what I've done, until I take that file right out of the layers folder first.
Not a complaint, though. Your Chart analogy has convinced me it should not be any other way, because editing a chart in a Navigation Program SHOULD involve some pretty obscure keys...
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Old 19-03-2014, 13:58   #6
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Re: Exporting (all) waypoints etc.

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Originally Posted by HappySeagull View Post
"... if I remember I can't "work on some layer contents" in such a way as to actually see what I've done, until I take that file right out of the layers folder first.
Not any more so, but in the old model this was the usual method. It was enough to hide the layer to avoid dupliacte objects seen on top of each other, should that disturb, but it was not always necessary...
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Old 19-03-2014, 15:21   #7
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Re: Exporting (all) waypoints etc.

How often you use this the "export all" functionality? I personally can survive quite well selecting all the wpts/routes/tracks and hitting the "Export selected..." button. Yes, a few more clicks and I have 3 GPX files, but I really don't do it every day. If it was just me, I would remove the "Export all visible" button completely or changed it to "Export everything which is not a layer, visible or not"

Pavel
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Old 20-03-2014, 04:16   #8
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Re: Exporting (all) waypoints etc.

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(...) I would (...) or change it to "Export everything which is not a layer, visible or not"
My best choice.

I use "Export All" (2.5 version) daily for full backup.

For layer authoring, I use "Export All" in a separate clean instance of RM if in bulk, or just export selected items to add these to a folder.

Most nav software I know feature a separate dialog for each type of object.

If I remember correctly Navsim allows for tickbox selection of export set contents, _also_for_import_, so I can choose to import just waypoints or just routes... this would be my second choice. Well worth considering.
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Old 20-03-2014, 09:26   #9
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Re: Exporting (all) waypoints etc.

Quote:
If it was just me, I would remove the "Export all visible" button completely or changed it to "Export everything which is not a layer, visible or not"
Oh you are trolling us! Don't do that! O is really handy as she is.
There's already the navobj files as backups in case of mistakes.
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