Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 29-01-2012, 07:55   #1246
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 37
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Copyright rights mean, amongst other things, that copyright owners can sell copies of the material and limit the distribution in (almost) any way they desires.



P.S., I doubt anyone will publicly say they have kept copies of the "newly copyrighted" material...
__________________

__________________
z.stadler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-01-2012, 14:27   #1247
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

is it possible that anyone had the foresight to have downloaded the "kap" files that were already created for this project including the now withdrawn regions just for safe keeping of course, ?
__________________

__________________
Rick Scali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-01-2012, 14:33   #1248
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 2,759
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

And you might ask somebody to put his head under the axe???
__________________
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2012, 16:35   #1249
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 83
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Correct me if I am wrong but these charts were downloaded when they were freely available without restriction so how can they now be be reclaimed.

Since the original downloads and through the dedicated efforts of many contributors they have ALL been altered and corrected so that they bear no resembelence to the original downloads apart from the coastal outlines - which are not copyrighted.

So in their new gestation ie altered and saved how can the original distributor claim that they belong to them and are subject to their copyright.

To my mind they are now sufficiently changed from the originals that they must be considered to be owned by the developers of the changes.

So just get on with completing and issuing them for use with Opcn.
__________________
dougwm10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2012, 18:36   #1250
Obsfucator, Second Class
 
dacust's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southeast USA.
Boat: 1982 Sea Ray SRV360
Posts: 1,743
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougwm10 View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but these charts were downloaded when they were freely available without restriction so how can they now be be reclaimed.

Since the original downloads and through the dedicated efforts of many contributors they have ALL been altered and corrected so that they bear no resembelence to the original downloads apart from the coastal outlines - which are not copyrighted.

So in their new gestation ie altered and saved how can the original distributor claim that they belong to them and are subject to their copyright.

To my mind they are now sufficiently changed from the originals that they must be considered to be owned by the developers of the changes.

So just get on with completing and issuing them for use with Opcn.
I'm not sure what thread you have been following. But, in the process used in THIS thread, almost NOTHING has been altered in any way. The images are completely unaltered except for where they have been cropped into smaller pieces for the insets. Other than that, the ONLY work done on them has been to create a calibration text file and convert them into .kap format. So the basic premise of your argument is completely and catastrophically wrong. ANY barely competent image professional could prove beyond ANY doubt that the .kaps created came directly from the images on the NGA website. Especially since the originals are JPGs so there will be anomalies unique to those images, and those alone.

Secondly, just because there was no warning that all rights were reserved, does not mean they weren't protected. You don't have to state that something is copyrighted to make it so. You may have to in order to have much of a chance at a lawsuit, but with the opponent being the government, you wouldn't catch ME trying to put that to the test.

-dan
dacust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 09:20   #1251
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 454
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

It is very difficult to see how the public good is being served by government agencies' insisting on intellectual property rights here. At least it doesn't seem the U.S. government agency is the real culprit. The real rat smells like the UK Hydrographic Office (and maybe SHOM?)

The public good is clearly served by free dissemination of this cartographic material. The work to compile it was largely done long ago at the expense of the public. If you drill right down to heart of the issue, this is a case of one or two government agencies trying to pad their budgets by placing the public's safety at risk. Small boat owners are going to sea with incomplete chart coverage because they can't afford the bloody charts. That's a clear safety hazard, not just to the boaters, but also to the other government employees who have to go out and rescue them when they get in trouble.

It wouldn't cost the government agencies in question anything, except a little bit of foregone revenue, to let us continue what we've been working on. Most of the government agencies' revenue from chart sales surely comes from commercial shipping. And the commercial guys aren't going to be using our charts. Our charts would not meet their legal carriage requirements. So the potential foregone revenue to the government agencies would appear to be minimal. This is a nutty decision on the part of the agencies who are pushing it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't come as a result of political pressure from the few private companies who profit from the sale of these charts.

If I felt the U.S. agency (the NGA) was the culprit here, I'd write to my congressman. But that may be a job for some of our European brethren, in this particular case.

I hope this turns out better in the near future. At the very least, I hope NGA will let us distribute the .KAPS for the regions they are still displaying online.
__________________
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 10:05   #1252
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

I agree! Tia Bu's statement "I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't come as a result of political pressure from the few private companies who profit from the sale of these charts." was my first thought.
__________________
Rick Scali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 10:44   #1253
Senior Cruiser
 
idpnd's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Almerķa, ES
Boat: Chiquita 46 - Libertalia
Posts: 1,551
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

The problem is that the NGA doesnt own the charts originally issued by other countries' agencies, which dont have the US legal requirement of publishing taxpayer funded data for free.. Its a shame, huge amounts of work went into this! Hopefully the existing KAPs will make their way online somehow.
__________________
sv Libertalia
idpnd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 03:56   #1254
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 279
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

without predudice

If you explore the nga charts via the intereractive catalog all the withdrawn regions are still there Dezoom still works

an opportunity y/n

richard
__________________
r.fairman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 12:20   #1255
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 37
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Several charts have both
"Copyright <YEAR> by the United States Government."
and
"No copyright claimed under Title 17 u.s.c."
Anyone knows what does it mean?

Can the US Government claim a copyright given the "No copyright claimed" declaration on the charts themselves?
__________________
z.stadler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2012, 15:10   #1256
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: On the go. Not in Prague.
Posts: 4,016
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Zeev...
That's why we started this project (see Copyright status of work by the U.S. government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). From the latest developments it looks like the NGA is not at all sure that what they wrote on the charts was true...

Pavel
__________________
nohal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 03:43   #1257
Senior Cruiser
 
idpnd's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Almerķa, ES
Boat: Chiquita 46 - Libertalia
Posts: 1,551
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Thats what you get for asking too many questions
__________________
sv Libertalia
idpnd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-02-2012, 11:33   #1258
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Boat: 50' catamaran
Posts: 431
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

I'm not sure what is happening to this project as it seems to have run into copyright issues.
Do you guys still require the server space?
If you do, no problem and things will simply continue.
If you don't, the server needs to be cleaned up.
__________________
Revelations is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2012, 05:07   #1259
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 454
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Could someone who knows what's going on please give us a status update?
__________________
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2012, 15:03   #1260
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Boat: 50' catamaran
Posts: 431
Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

BUMP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseMoney View Post
I'm not sure what is happening to this project as it seems to have run into copyright issues.
Do you guys still require the server space?
If you do, no problem and things will simply continue.
If you don't, the server needs to be cleaned up.
__________________

__________________
Revelations is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charts

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.