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Old 07-11-2011, 10:30   #1051
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

OpenCpn (Vista) cannot read the .kap chart (29126) from 4shared . I seem to have a single red line in the vicinity of Port Arthur, but cannot open it.

But I fail to see how GE2KAP (8.1.9) was used to create this .kap chart.
Was Mapcal used first ?
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:20   #1052
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Tore
All your PLY:s has the same latitude(almost)! That's why "sailorF54" sees a red line, and nobody can open your chart.
Thomas
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:03   #1053
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

SailorF54..

I also have Vista Home.. and it would not show up in OCPN but works perfectly in both SeaClear as well as Fugawi Marine ENC.

It was of course first calibrated using MapCal before converted to .kap using GE2KAP (latest ver)

In the end I downloaded the chart 29126 from the OCPN NGA chart base.

Paul is away on holiday at the moment and I will as him when he returns.

Tore
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:13   #1054
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

HappySeagull..

Yes,I downloaded the .jpg file of Arthur Bay approach,Antarctica from the OCPN NGA library and as always converted to .kap myself so any registration is not neccessary.

Quote:
thanks for supporting the NGA Charts project.
For security reasons, it is necessary that you register or log in before you granted access to the edit pages.
I will ask Paul when he returns as to why the chart failed to display in OCPN when it works perfectly in both SeaClear and Fugawi Mariner ENC.

I am also running on Vista Home..

Tore
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:20   #1055
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by cagney View Post
Tore
All your PLY:s has the same latitude(almost)! That's why "sailorF54" sees a red line, and nobody can open your chart.
Thomas
Sharp-eyed Cagney
Does that mean that SeaClear and Fugawi Marine ENC ignore the PLY values ?
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:20   #1056
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

The workflow is clear although it does not describe how some of the steps are actually accomplished or how feedback is supposed to be returned and new updates made available.

It will be very important for cruisers who discover actual errors to be able to report these and have updated editions available. A simple code could, for example, be added to the file name. For example - V031211-C3-86001.KAP might mean V(version)(date)-C(certified check 3- with Google Earth)-chart number.

There should also be a way for someone (like myself) to make the actual corrections to the KAP and upload a revised edition. Clearly it would also be useful for someone to "verify" the calibration just to be sure - and I found a great way to do that.

In regards to verification and scoring I have some very excellent news for everyone involved with this - and everyone who needs to re-calibrate charts or convert old tried and true seaclear charts into KAPS. I found a really terrific program called MapC2MapC by a guy named Thorn in England.

When I started reading about using the scripts described on this forum for calibrating and converting and saving KAP charts, I quickly realized I was not likely to find my way through all of it. So I started Googling for map conversion programs which were a little more user friendly and found MapC2MapC. I downloaded it and WOW! Just what we need. You can use this program to:


1. calibrate a chart scan or satellite image (like with SeaClear's MapCal only much more accurate and easier to use).
I used it to calibrate some of the image files from this forum which were not done because of inserts or irregular shapes. First I split the image into two (or more) parts then calibrated them with MapC2MapC then saved them as a KAP file. Faster than the "route" method described here and without the need for any scripts. The results were perfect.
Even better, after calibrating, MapC2MapC lets you right click on a spot on the calibrated chart and you see a close-up thumbnail from Google Earth of that location!!!!! So you get a real-time check on the accuracy of the calibration. Have a look at this!



2. Read or WRITE a KAP file!!! So if you discover the KAP file is wrong you can load it, re-calibrate it, check it with Google Earth, and save it again. It is totally user friendly.

3. Get calibration data from SeaClear calibrated image files. I am a longtime SeaClear user and have hundreds of seaclear charts in WCI or image format. MapC2MapC lets me grab the seaclear calibrations, verify with Google Earth and save them in KAP format.

4. You can also save the calibrated chart in a whole lot of other formats so you could, for example, use the charts on your smart-phone or tablet with several navigation programs. Since OpenCPN is not available for tablets yet this will be of great interest to skippers that want to use the charts on their tablets.

I will send a link to this thread to the author of MapC2MapC and see if he wants to work with us to make the whole process more user-friendly.

As I said, it will be really important to have a feed-back system in place so skippers from around the world can reliably report on the accuracy of calibrations for the charts and contribute with actual ground truth GPS positions and/or GoogleEarth confirmations. Not many skippers are going to be able to handle the script process for creating KAP files so this program may be really useful for a lot of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcn View Post
Motivated by some comments with questions how to characterize a chart in a given moment and also taking into account the suggestions from Richard (#1003) and Thomas (#1023) I tried to summarize the steps and status a chart is taking in our workflow.
In my opinion these steps should be documented within the database (with dates and possibly comments).

A pdf is attached.

Call for comments

Hubert

BTW: would have liked to embed the document visibly but don't how to do so
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Old 07-11-2011, 16:18   #1057
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Thanks for the link,R~hc...I'm giving it a try and got a kap out pretty quick too!
Per:
"....and have updated editions available. A simple code could, for example, be added to the file name. For example - V031211-C3-86001.KAP might mean V(version)(date)-C(certified check 3- with Google Earth)-chart number. "
hmm.
the kaps already have creation dates,(as do all files,I think)so it's easy to know if they're newer than the ones you have aboard right now. You could simplify a lot by not incorporating the date and by the way,specifically as suggested ,the chart won't sort in geographic order either.

I just want to know how MANY have checked it and how MUCH!so how about
instead of a numeric score a GRADE is used,like school...A,B,C,D,E!
so if 4 people have scored it "C" and 2 score it "A", it could be:
"86001_4xC_2xA.kap" or even

"86001_4C2A.kap"
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Old 07-11-2011, 18:54   #1058
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorF54 View Post
Sharp-eyed Cagney
Does that mean that SeaClear and Fugawi Marine ENC ignore the PLY values ?
As far as I know, neither of them quilt charts. So they have no need to use the PLYs.

EDIT: I KNOW SeaClear does not do quilting.

Don't know about Fugawi. If they do, it is also possible they look at the PLYs, see they are bad, and so ignore them. If so, and if they quilt, then the borders would show during the quilt.
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Old 07-11-2011, 21:49   #1059
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

I prefer to simply load the charts with inserts or those divided into two or more smaller charts into photoshop and cut them into individual charts for each sub-section, then calibrate and save these as KAPS using MapC2MapC.

These show up fine in OpenCPN, SeaClear or any other program - quilting or not. I think it actually takes less time than the process described for making the PLYs.

Richard

Quote:
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As far as I know, neither of them quilt charts. So they have no need to use the PLYs.

EDIT: I KNOW SeaClear does not do quilting.

Don't know about Fugawi. If they do, it is also possible they look at the PLYs, see they are bad, and so ignore them. If so, and if they quilt, then the borders would show during the quilt.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:23   #1060
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

I found quilting a real nuisance when I wanted to remove charts temporarily so I gave up on quilting until OpenCPN made it so easy to control.
Quilting borders are a requirement of the charts we are making here.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:05   #1061
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardhc View Post
I prefer to simply load the charts with inserts or those divided into two or more smaller charts into photoshop and cut them into individual charts for each sub-section, then calibrate and save these as KAPS using MapC2MapC.

These show up fine in OpenCPN, SeaClear or any other program - quilting or not. I think it actually takes less time than the process described for making the PLYs.

Richard
If each chart you make is rectangular (no cutouts, bumps, etc.) and has no borders, then that will work. But it means that in single chart mode you can't see the borders and read any of the text there.

-dan
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:32   #1062
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Obviously is it possible to go for a quicker solution to generate charts via GIMP etc. With the disadvantages Dan pointed out.

As I understand the NGA project we want to deliver charts with an uniform, high standard, that is usable on a wide range of systems, result of a traceable workflow.
The process should be open to everybody - that is why the workflow has been established the way as it is today. With success.

And we should keep it as simple as possible. That means for me to limit us to the chart material from NGA in a first cycle, finishing the project. There are still a lot of charts on insets or from multiple sets to be processed. We have to create the tools for that part still.

Comments about the charts - concerning issues of the chart - should if possible be covered by entries in the header files. Here I'm missing still the comments from the experts in the field of BSB charts if this is feasible.
Kind of release notes as proposed by Thomas and Richard - but short ones.

The next step can be considered then after. NTMs should be important to us. Wiki style or Active Captain style to add other (relevant) information. Obviously if somebody has the capacity and likes to add stuff now nobody will reject this.
My recommendation would be to center our efforts to the core - getting the complete collection done.

Hubert
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Old 08-11-2011, 14:31   #1063
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

Speaking of PLYS and all that,I think 81737 and 81329 need a reset or something.I was trying to (ahem) fix 'em but it just gets worse!
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Old 08-11-2011, 14:36   #1064
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

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Old 08-11-2011, 14:45   #1065
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Re: Charts II: NGA - 2700 Charts

yeah, rewind the process or an undo option....

A case for Nohal I think.

Hubert

But you might edit the path file as well --> back to the 4 corners and there you go
Or recalibrate the chart. That should bring up a clear path/GPX file too.
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