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Old 16-11-2013, 03:10   #46
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Re: Chart updates?

@sisiutl

Do not trust CM93 v2 implicitly. There have been many threads, over the years, in this forum, and other places, showing errors and omissions built into CM93. Just use the search function on this forum.

CM93 works well and is accurate for many areas, but not all areas.
Don't use it, or trust it, without checking with other sources.
CM93 is not put together with the same checks and integrity, as official charts. The same also holds for Navionics charts. See link to enlightening thread at the end of this post.

Thomas
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Old 16-11-2013, 03:57   #47
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Re: Chart updates?

As for I know, last updates of CM93 are from december 2011. In each folder CM93, look for the file with .EXD extension (at the end of list). On it you can read the update time. For instance, in my CM93 EXD file, I see 20120706 (2012-07-06)
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Old 16-11-2013, 06:27   #48
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Re: Chart updates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sisiutl View Post
'OpenCPN useless outside US" Where do you get that? I have used it for years and sll outside the US.
.
Of course you used it, but with what charts.....already three years old "Russians" cm93, or raster charts last time updated in 1998

Try to update it.
http://ww1.jeppesen.com/main/corpora...e/lightmarine/

or try some of those

https://www.ukho.gov.uk/ProductsandS...ages/AVCS.aspx


Yes Australian, New Zealand, US and Brazilian charts are also free to download. But what if you are not cruising those countries?

I don't know I I'd be very happy going to a foreign country on Cartography that was last updated 12 years ago.

OCPN is not only useless, considering file formats (charts) that can read it is also obsolete.

that is like you have black and white television from 1970s and try to watch HD films on it.
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Old 16-11-2013, 06:44   #49
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Re: Chart updates?



Any new or additional arguments please?
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Old 16-11-2013, 08:20   #50
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Re: Chart updates?

It is of course pointless to discuss further, whether OCPN, which has been successfully used as the only tool on a recently completed circumnavigation is useful or not. Thanks, Dave and all the contributors!

Back to the thread, just a remark on the update info quoted in the CM93 sets. Around 2009/2010 I had been bringing up to date a large folio of paper charts, that were some years behind. I used OCPN to cross-compare the changes as I made them. I remember I had the impression, that the "update date" of CM93 was not really related to the status in any given point of time. It is rather just a "release date", whatever this might mean.

One example I remember is the removal of HMS "Rame Head" from Portsmouth Harbour. The ship was removed from her permanent mooring in May 2007. It is still shown on the 2009 CM, and is gone on 2010 CM. I do not remember the corresponding NtM, but I think it was well before 2009.
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Old 16-11-2013, 11:51   #51
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Re: Chart updates?

I've been thinking about this need for the latest updates expressed by some folks, and the following idea popped up:

For folks who sail in busy commercial waters located in first world countries, frequent and accurate updates are available via NTM and other sources. They can reasonably depend upon accurate charts, and so develop a "need" to have such at all times. To go with less seems unsafe, and so we get opinions such as have been posted in this thread.

For those who cruise in distant lands with little commercial traffic, no hydrographic service and little budget or concern for charting, well, we have learned that charts are only approximations of reality and so do not place great reliance upon their currency of information. Many locations have no detailed charts at all, many more are based on surveys done decades, or even centuries ago. Many of us still choose to go to such places none the less, and we make the appropriate alterations in our procedures to attempt to compensate for the lack of chart dependability.

In these areas, the major geographical features have not changed materially, and so those are likely to be fairly accurate. More transient features, such as ATNs and shore constructions are less likely to be accurate. We have noted that in many areas of the South Pacific, ATNs are totally unreliable. They are frequently off station or missing completely, the lights are extinguished or obscured and the lack of maintenance has made some of them unrecognizable. Knowing this, we simply try not to depend upon them at all, using active means (radar, sonar, eyeballs) to avoid hazards... a big dose of caution helps as well!

We would all like to have perfect charts of every destination and route, but since that is not possible, we either give up cruising to "interesting" places or learn to live with reality. Meanwhile, OCPN and cm93 (plus whatever other charts are available) are used with appreciation... and that big dose of caution, too!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 16-11-2013, 12:25   #52
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Re: Chart updates?

I seriously question the 200,000 number that was thrown about as if that's how many users of OCPN exist. It isn't true. It isn't close to true.

Here's a good benchmark. We know there are about 300,000 users of Navionics for iPhone, iPad, and Android. Those numbers are easy to verify because the stores they are sold in as well as other websites track use of the various apps. Navionics has done some reporting as well and I doubt they would under-report the use. I'd guess that about every 1 in 3 boats I visit are running the Navionics app. That's an easy statistic to get yourself - go ask a few boats today and see how many purchased and use the Navionics app.

Now switch to OCPN. I'd guess that 1 in 10 boats I visit have really used the program and maybe 1/2 to 1/3rd of them are really using it as a chartplotter while underway. So that perhaps averages 1 in 25 who are really using the software. That puts the users at maybe 8,000 assuming each real user downloaded the software once. If they've downloaded it 4 times (highly probable) then there are really about 2,000 users which is about what the size of the market feels like to me.

When you consider that you have to purchase Navionics to get it and only have to download OCPN for free, it puts a good point on the lack of true use for OCPN.

I'm not saying it's a poor program. I'm happy it exists for the community and I use it myself. I'm just a little alone out here with it and would like to see it a little more reliable and a little better designed.
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Old 16-11-2013, 13:00   #53
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Re: Chart updates?

svmeanderer...
We are looking forward to some real input as to how we can improve the poor design in OpenCPN::Tracker All Projects: Tasklist ...
I'm a bit tired of the number discussion and actually it's not important at all, but your math seems a bit too cruel as I would have to know about 5% of the worldwide userbase personally.

Pavel
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Old 16-11-2013, 13:08   #54
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Re: Chart updates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
...your math seems a bit too cruel as I would have to know about 5% of the worldwide userbase personally.
Well, not really. My numbers were relative to the installation of Navionics apps which is fairly well known. So if you do your own comparison of Navionics app users to OCPN users in your area, you'll be able to estimate real numbers. It's what ratios are all about.

The key is trying to do as good of a random sampling as possible. This is basic science and statistics.

And the numbers do matter.
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Old 16-11-2013, 13:11   #55
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Re: Chart updates?

Can't agree more and that's what I do - I know about the same number of people using Navionics and OpenCPN... Both groups are more or less the same big and outnumber anything else by order of magnitude.
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Old 16-11-2013, 13:30   #56
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Re: Chart updates?

How may OpenCPN users are there is a funny experiment - for an open source and free application.
There is no tracking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svmeanderer View Post
I seriously question the 200,000 number that was thrown about as if that's how many users of OCPN exist. It isn't true. It isn't close to true.
Where does this number come from? Not from the OpenCPN community.
3.2.2 has at this moment 109.461 downloads at sourceforge (only).
France in front with some 21.000.......

How to track this down to (active) users? Not a marketing guy here.


Quote:
Navionics has done some reporting as well and I doubt they would under-report the use.
No, by no means never... Google would not be interested neither to have bloated numbers of course.
How many people just throw away an App? Are they on a boat really?

A bit of an annoying debate: "who is important"

Easy: we want the best charts for OpenCPN and are working for that. What Navionincs, Garmin or Jeppensen are doing is up to them.

And just sailing (or motoring) - numbers do matter to accountants

Hubert
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Old 16-11-2013, 14:24   #57
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Re: Chart updates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svmeanderer View Post
I'd guess that about every 1 in 3 boats I visit are running the Navionics app. That's an easy statistic to get yourself - go ask a few boats today and see how many purchased and use the Navionics app.

Now switch to OCPN. I'd guess that 1 in 10 boats I visit have really used the program and maybe 1/2 to 1/3rd of them are really using it as a chartplotter while underway.
Not that it matters, but I would say that is the complete opposite experience from mine. Almost everyone I know has OCPN (I will guess 75%) and only maybe 30-40% have the Navionics app.

I don't know of anyone using the Navionics app as their main navigation tool underway. I know several doing so with OCPN. Probably the majority of boats I meet are using a fixed chartplotter as their main nav tool underway.

You don't mention where you are at, so perhaps this is regional?

Mark
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Old 16-11-2013, 14:50   #58
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Re: Chart updates?

OCPN & Navionics are a completely different kettle of fish.

OCPN is free other one is not. Start charging £10 for each OCPN download and then come with numbers.
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Old 16-11-2013, 15:13   #59
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Re: Chart updates?

gloriax...
Your time could perhaps better be wasted on comparing features. And it would even be useful for something...

Pavel
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Old 16-11-2013, 15:59   #60
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Re: Chart updates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gloriax View Post
OCPN & Navionics are a completely different kettle of fish.

OCPN is free other one is not. Start charging £10 for each OCPN download and then come with numbers.
Just to resume: if you don't have to pay for something it has no practical value - so take your breathe (if you can't pay for every liter of oxigegene).
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