Active Captain Discontinued - An Opportunity?

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by did-g

Huh, are you sure? From their term and service they don't claim ownership of your work but you can't fork the database.

Well maybe I am confused, correct me if I'm wrong.

Unlike AC, they don't claim ownership of your work, so I think we are safe.

The plugin itself, reads data directly from squiddio and is open source.

If they do not claim ownership of any of the user contributed information,
then it should be possible to make database requests to their server and
dump the data into another database. It might be good to do this periodically
in case the terms are changed in the future, or if squiddio evaporates
like "goodanchorage"

This would not violate their terms. The terms are only regarding their own
content, like their website, not user content.

[Franziska]

Had to delete this post. Obsolete. Sorry.

[did-g]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

Well maybe I am confused, correct me if I'm wrong.

Unlike AC, they don't claim ownership of your work, so I think we are safe.

The plugin itself, reads data directly from squiddio and is open source.

If they do not claim ownership of any of the user contributed information,
then it should be possible to make database requests to their server and
dump the data into another database. It might be good to do this periodically
in case the terms are changed in the future, or if squiddio evaporates
like "goodanchorage"

This would not violate their terms. The terms are only regarding their own
content, like their website, not user content.

Maybe but in my understanding of their words Collective Content is user content, ie you as a user give them the right to do whatever they want with your contributions but there's nowhere saying you give the same right to other contributors...

So if you download other contributors data and want to use them in an incompatible way, with incompatible being a mere copy, you must ask permission to every contributors or have no right to do it.

Moreover it's likely they've 'tainted', aka add value to, data you've downloaded so they'll try to put a claim on every bit of it anyway.

[Franziska]

I'll write to them and ask for clarification.

Here is what I wrote to then:

"...

Dear ladies and gentlemen,


following the sale of Active Captain to Garmin, there is an ongoing discussion on cruisers forum as to what truly open source cruising community contributed alternatives there are.


We are unclear as to what extent community sourced content on Squiddo is and will stay open source, even if Squiddo.io would be sold one day.


Maybe you would want to join the discussion directly.

Alternatively I could copy paste your reply into the forum if you consent to this.


Very best regards,


Franziska... "

[Lake-Effect]

"Open Source" refers to software, applications... code, not data. What is in discussion is DATA, and restrictions put on its use, re-use, copying etc.

* * *

Something I notice here - many are touting a particular alternative as a theoretical less restrictive replacement for AC... and even bickering a bit about how your fave is better than someone else's.

All you're doing is pumping what may well be the next AC, if they get a fat offer. The solution to removing all the barriers to data use is not to pick a new repository, it is to SHARE all the data.

The right move is for all of these allegedly more open providers to get together and figure out how each can share their data with the others. That also helps fill in any holes; the North-American provider can complete the listings of the Euro-centric provider and vice versa. They can still keep some sort of flag indicating where that data originally came from, if that's important to them... but again, the best way to keep data open is to share all of it. The user should be able to see all of this allegedly open data, regardless of what application or platform they use.

[Franziska]

Lets wait for their answer....
Than we can take it apart.

I asked specifically about what is happening to community sourced data.
Feel free to write to them as well. :-)

[Stu Jackson]

What about those chaps from either Australia or NZ who started their new crowd sourced system and posted it here? Sorry I forget the name, but it came up on another AC-is-dying thread.

[Franziska]

One if them wrote in the other thread:

"... A quick update. We are moving ahead with the integration of the NOAA charts to Zulu Waterways. It will be complete by early next week and will be displayed as a map option for the US region. We are also making some improvements to performance and increase functionality of the site/app.<br />
<br />
We have just heard the news that Active Captain will no longer supply its information to (some/all?) third party services. We are happy to step up and provide a similar service as AC did and would be interested in talking with services who are looking for a new source of information, like that which AC supplied them. We encourage boaters to give Zulu Waterways a go and test the functionality of the site/app. If you would like to see this platform grow in your region (particularly the US region) to the point where it could be applied to your other platforms, then we encourage you to start adding information to your local waterways. We are working from our side to constantly improve the performance and functions of Zulu and feel it’s a good platform which now needs support from the community to grow in the US region.<br />
<br />
Nicholas Baillie Jackson <br />
Zulu Waterways... "

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Franziska

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Zulu Waterways... "

Thanks, Fran.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

Well maybe I am confused, correct me if I'm wrong.

Unlike AC, they don't claim ownership of your work, so I think we are safe.

The plugin itself, reads data directly from squiddio and is open source.

If they do not claim ownership of any of the user contributed information,
then it should be possible to make database requests to their server and
dump the data into another database. It might be good to do this periodically
in case the terms are changed in the future, or if squiddio evaporates
like "goodanchorage"

This would not violate their terms. The terms are only regarding their own
content, like their website, not user content.

It is a fairly restrictive license as far as reusing the content.

“Collective Content” means Member Content and sQuidd.io Content.

You acknowledge and agree that the Site, Applications, Services and Collective Content, including all associated intellectual property rights is the exclusive property of sQuidd.io and its licensors

Subject to your compliance with the terms and conditions of these Terms, sQuidd.io grants you a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable license, to (i) access and view any sQuidd.io Content solely for your personal and non-commercial purposes and (ii) access and view any Member Content to which you are permitted access, solely for your personal and non-commercial purposes. You have no right to sublicense the license rights granted in this section.

[Bleemus]

Zuluwaterways seems to be doing okay in Australia but looks like very few users in US at this point. I will add to it when I think of it but it won't be my go to source.

Sad to hear Active Captain website will be going dark soon.

[Aswayze]

As far as contributing to the next Active Captain clone to show up goes, this seems like a case of "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" No reason to make the next jackass willing to sell us down the river rich.

If it is not completely open, as in data dispersed etc then you are just walking into another trap.

As for Garmin, I will not forget that they did this.

[Franziska]

Thumbs up Aswayze!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

Zuluwaterways seems to be doing okay in Australia but looks like very few users in US at this point. I will add to it when I think of it but it won't be my go to source.

Sad to hear Active Captain website will be going dark soon.

I can't even find a license agreement for Zuluwaterways.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

Sad to hear Active Captain website will be going dark soon.

I don't recall anyone suggesting that.

The suspicion, based on one data point (Polar Navy) as well as some history of Garmin's business practices, is that the data may be more closely held by Garmin and possibly only available in their own hardware and apps.

The longer this speculation lingers, the fewer people will enter data, causing the database to become less useful over time.