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Old 18-06-2017, 19:12   #46
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Re: Women and engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValiantV View Post
A good mechanic, and one who cherishes his fine tools, would NEVER put a "cheater bar" on them! That's assuming that you know more and better than the engineers who designed those tools and you may as well say it fine to run your engine rated for 3,600 rpm Max at 5,000 rpm. You should EXPECT something to break.

If you have to use a "cheater", then you're doing something wrong. Period.

If you need more torque, then you need a larger drive size, or a longer breaker bar.

Sure, if you're stranded in the middle of the ocean and have no options - then do what it takes. Otherwise, use the right tool for the job. Always.
Considering that we are generally discussing how a woman mechanic can overcome her lack of upper body strength, use of a cheater bar is not bad practice at all. The drive tang does not know how the torque applied to it is generated... that is, there is no difference between a brute exerting 200 lbs force on a 12 inch arm and a petite lady exerting 100 lbs force on a 24 inch arm in terms of breaking the tool.

And how about the situation where even the brute is in an awkward position and can't exert his normal force... nothing wrong with a cheater then.

So, I gotta disagree with your categorical "If you have to use a "cheater", then you're doing something wrong. Period. " statement.

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Old 18-06-2017, 20:38   #47
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Re: Women and engines

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I really mean this in the nicest way....

...You should just focus on absorbing whatever knowledge you can gain of the engine problem, both from your mechanic and husband, rather than let your pride inhibit a discussion.

Ultimately it is YOU who makes the decisions, so why not take advantage of whatever expertise is available that is better than yours .

Get involved and learn, but don't sweat the petty assumptions
This! Why do you need to draw attention to yourself by asking this? If you are an equal then just learn the info and apply it. I have worked on everything from planes to boats to heavy equipment. Have met women that were capable of working on all of them. Ya know what? The ones that were good at working never asked for any special treatment or instruction just because they were a woman. We a
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Old 18-06-2017, 21:45   #48
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Re: Women and engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValiantV View Post
A good mechanic, and one who cherishes his fine tools, would NEVER put a "cheater bar" on them! That's assuming that you know more and better than the engineers who designed those tools and you may as well say it fine to run your engine rated for 3,600 rpm Max at 5,000 rpm. You should EXPECT something to break.

If you have to use a "cheater", then you're doing something wrong. Period.

If you need more torque, then you need a larger drive size, or a longer breaker bar.

Sure, if you're stranded in the middle of the ocean and have no options - then do what it takes. Otherwise, use the right tool for the job. Always.
The " rite " tool is the one that does the job , and a piece of tubing is de regar in any tool kit
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Old 18-06-2017, 23:23   #49
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Re: Women and engines

And that's what has been a priority of late. Listing the wrench or socket size used for the particular maintenance task. Engine belt adjustments, valve covers, water pump. Keeping a log of the size tool needed and taking the tools required from the tool storage. The right tool.
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Old 19-06-2017, 00:17   #50
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Re: Women and engines

At least women know when to get a mechanic

Oil Change instructions for Women:

1) Drive into Ultra Tune when the odometer reaches 10,000 kilometres since the last oil change.
2) Drink a cup of coffee , read paper (both of which are free).
3) 15 minutes later, swipe the Visa and leave with a properly maintained vehicle.
Money spent: = Oil Change: $40.00
Total: $40.00

Oil Change instructions for Men:
1) Wait until Saturday, drive to auto parts store and buy a case of oil, filter, kitty litter, hand cleaner and a scented tree, swipe the Visa for $50.00.
2) Stop by the Bottle Shop and buy a slab of beer, swipe the Visa for $40, drive home.
3) Open a beer and drink it.
4) Jack car up. Spend 30 minutes looking for jack stands.
5) Find jack stands under caravan.
6) In frustration, open another beer and drink it.
7) Place drain pan under engine.
8) Look for 19 mm ring spanner.
9) Give up and use crescent wrench.
10) Unscrew drain plug.
11) Drop drain plug in pan of hot oil: splash hot oil on you in process. Curse and swear.
12) Crawl out from under car to wipe hot oil off face and arms. Throw kitty litter on spilled oil.*
13) Have another beer while watching oil drain.
14) Spend 30 minutes looking for oil filter wrench.
15) Give up; crawl under car and hammer a screwdriver through oil filter and twist off.
16) Crawl out from under car with dripping oil filter splashing oil everywhere from holes. Cleverly, hide old oil filter among rubbish in rubbish bin to avoid environmental penalties. Drink a beer.
17) Install new oil filter making sure to apply a thin coat of oil to gasket surface.
18) Dump first litre of fresh oil into engine.
19) Remember drain plug from step 11.
20) Hurry to find drain plug in drain pan.
21) Drink beer.
22) Discover that first litre of fresh oil is now on the floor. Throw kitty litter on oil spill.
23) Get drain plug back in with only a minor spill.
Drink beer.
24) Crawl under car getting kitty litter into eyes. Wipe eyes with oily rag used to clean drain plug. Slip with stupid crescent wrench tightening drain plug and bang knuckles on frame removing any excess skin between knuckles and frame.
25) Begin swearing.
26) Throw stupid crescent wrench.
27) Swear for additional 5 minutes because wrench hit bowling trophy.
28) Drink beer.
29) Clean up hands and bandage as required to stop blood flow.
30) Drink beer.
31) Dump in five fresh litres of oil.
32) Drink beer.
33) Lower car from jack stands.
34) Move car back to apply more kitty litter to fresh oil spilled during any missed steps.
35) Drink beer.
36) Test drive car.
37) Get pulled over: arrested for driving under the influence.
38) Car is impounded.
39) Call loving wife, make bail.
40) 12 hours later, get car from impound yard.
Money spent:
Parts: $50.00
Driving Under Influence fine: $2500.00
Impound fee: $75.00
Bail: $1500.00
Beer: $40.00
Total: $4,185.00
But you know the job was done right !
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Old 19-06-2017, 05:39   #51
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Re: Women and engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0urh View Post
At least women know when to get a mechanic

Oil Change instructions for Women:

1) Drive into Ultra Tune when the odometer reaches 10,000 kilometres since the last oil change.
2) Drink a cup of coffee , read paper (both of which are free).
3) 15 minutes later, swipe the Visa and leave with a properly maintained vehicle.
Money spent: = Oil Change: $40.00
Total: $40.00

Oil Change instructions for Men:
1) Wait until Saturday, drive to auto parts store and buy a case of oil, filter, kitty litter, hand cleaner and a scented tree, swipe the Visa for $50.00.
2) Stop by the Bottle Shop and buy a slab of beer, swipe the Visa for $40, drive home.
3) Open a beer and drink it.
4) Jack car up. Spend 30 minutes looking for jack stands.
5) Find jack stands under caravan.
6) In frustration, open another beer and drink it.
7) Place drain pan under engine.
8) Look for 19 mm ring spanner.
9) Give up and use crescent wrench.
10) Unscrew drain plug.
11) Drop drain plug in pan of hot oil: splash hot oil on you in process. Curse and swear.
12) Crawl out from under car to wipe hot oil off face and arms. Throw kitty litter on spilled oil.*
13) Have another beer while watching oil drain.
14) Spend 30 minutes looking for oil filter wrench.
15) Give up; crawl under car and hammer a screwdriver through oil filter and twist off.
16) Crawl out from under car with dripping oil filter splashing oil everywhere from holes. Cleverly, hide old oil filter among rubbish in rubbish bin to avoid environmental penalties. Drink a beer.
17) Install new oil filter making sure to apply a thin coat of oil to gasket surface.
18) Dump first litre of fresh oil into engine.
19) Remember drain plug from step 11.
20) Hurry to find drain plug in drain pan.
21) Drink beer.
22) Discover that first litre of fresh oil is now on the floor. Throw kitty litter on oil spill.
23) Get drain plug back in with only a minor spill.
Drink beer.
24) Crawl under car getting kitty litter into eyes. Wipe eyes with oily rag used to clean drain plug. Slip with stupid crescent wrench tightening drain plug and bang knuckles on frame removing any excess skin between knuckles and frame.
25) Begin swearing.
26) Throw stupid crescent wrench.
27) Swear for additional 5 minutes because wrench hit bowling trophy.
28) Drink beer.
29) Clean up hands and bandage as required to stop blood flow.
30) Drink beer.
31) Dump in five fresh litres of oil.
32) Drink beer.
33) Lower car from jack stands.
34) Move car back to apply more kitty litter to fresh oil spilled during any missed steps.
35) Drink beer.
36) Test drive car.
37) Get pulled over: arrested for driving under the influence.
38) Car is impounded.
39) Call loving wife, make bail.
40) 12 hours later, get car from impound yard.
Money spent:
Parts: $50.00
Driving Under Influence fine: $2500.00
Impound fee: $75.00
Bail: $1500.00
Beer: $40.00
Total: $4,185.00
But you know the job was done right !
That's totally unfair! Why do men get to drink all that beer? Can we add a step 5 where the woman goes back to her boat and opens up a can of beer? Funny, I never thought about tinkering with my car engine...definitely wouldn't have an interest in crawling under the car to change the oil (but somehow, squeezing inside a tiny engine compartment on a moving boat is more interesting!)
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Old 19-06-2017, 06:06   #52
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Re: Women and engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearkeley View Post
...
Funny, I never thought about tinkering with my car engine...definitely wouldn't have an interest in crawling under the car to change the oil (but somehow, squeezing inside a tiny engine compartment on a moving boat is more interesting!)
I think you have just defined:
"what makes a boater?"...
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Old 19-06-2017, 10:28   #53
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Re: Women and engines

"Get some good anti-seize too, there is a special type that won't cause corrosion, I think it's graphite you want to avoid"
AFAIK graphite is pretty inert. Common antiseize may be loaded with copper, and that should be avoided with aluminum and some other metal parts. The more expensive stuff uses nickel dust instead.
On Ann's point, if there's vibration just use LocTite blue or green instead of antiseize. It will keep the threads clean and you can still bust it out without a problem. The stuff only has a two-year shelf life, unlock antiseize (forever) so there are differences, and of course, LocTite won't work on hot exhaust fittings.(G)

I can vouch for cheap tools and busted knuckles. When a big one went exactly that way, I made my decision to stick to Craftsman and other brand names, and never use disposable tools unless there was no alternative.
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Old 19-06-2017, 10:56   #54
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Re: Women and engines

I don't understand the concept of hiring mechanics, plumbers, electricians etc.
I hire out things I can't or shouldn't do, Dentists, Dr.s, CPA's etc
A year or so ago I hired someone to replace a couple of window regulators in my truck, $500 or so later I relearned not to hire out what I can do. Only mechanic I have hired in my life that I can remember, but then I have never paid someone to mow the grass either.

My Father was extremely intelligent but couldn't change oil in a lawnmower, later I found out he was the odd ball in his family, the rest were talented mechanics, machinists etc. I think people in Rural areas become so out of necessity.

I don't understand if you can't or won't fix your car, why do you want to the boat?
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Old 19-06-2017, 12:13   #55
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Re: Women and engines

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I don't understand the concept of hiring mechanics, plumbers, electricians etc.
I hire out things I can't or shouldn't do, Dentists, Dr.s, CPA's etc
A year or so ago I hired someone to replace a couple of window regulators in my truck, $500 or so later I relearned not to hire out what I can do. Only mechanic I have hired in my life that I can remember, but then I have never paid someone to mow the grass either.
Well, as to the concept of hiring mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc. Four parts to that concept. First, not having the skills oneself. I don't have those skills and don't want to or intend to develop them.

That brings us to the second which is how one feels about doing those things. Some really enjoy them. I don't.

Then that brings me to the second part, which is value of time. I grew up in a business where all billings were time based, my father's accounting office. So, very quickly I knew the value of my time. Today I do a little bit of consulting and do so at outrageous rates so have a new value of my time. When you start valuing your own time, then the price someone else is charging for their time doesn't seem nearly as unreasonable.

Last do you have the money to pay for the work. It doesn't matter if $500 is reasonable or not, doesn't matter if I enjoy the work, if I don't have the $500 the plumber estimates, then I can't have him do the work.
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Old 19-06-2017, 12:25   #56
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Re: Women and engines

TBH I can't imagine why anyone , man or woman , would want to work on an engine , it is a different story if one should need to for whatever reason , being in middle of the ocean or not being able to afford one , same goes for plumbing , electrical , wall papering ( to mention but a few ) , so much better , as previous poster referred to , doing my own reasonably paid job and paying someone who is usually better qualified than me to do it for me , why take three days of work st resultant loss of earnings when I can pay someone to do a job in one !! Then I can go do things which I enjoy , like cycling , motor biking , sailing etc ,,,, mind you , quite like messing around with springs brakes shockabrorbets, anti roll bars etc .
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Old 19-06-2017, 13:19   #57
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Re: Women and engines

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I don't understand the concept of hiring mechanics, plumbers, electricians etc.

I don't understand if you can't or won't fix your car, why do you want to the boat?

Adding on to BandB's note...

Fix-it time varies, between car and boat. Dealer can do an oil change in my car in about 30 minutes; it'd take me longer to just get the thing up on a rack to even start.

Fixing things on our boat, though, often becomes more of an access problem... so if a mechanic can do something in 45 minutes... but access issues means it'll really take him a total of 4 hours... well, I sometimes don't mind saving some of that labor cost even if the basic work would take me an hour and a half. (Not dissimilar to working on my tractor; paying to get the mechanic here begins to tilt the equation toward doing most of the service myself.)

Besides, fixing cars would be boring, fixing boats more interesting. For me.

Also, some jobs require specific tools, so the cost of tools can be worth a look. If the tool is something I might us over and over again, it might be worth the investment. If it's a one-time-shot and expensive, and if the mechanic likely has that tool already anyway... farming out that job can save shopping time (for the tool), learning time (how to use it), and direct cost associated with a tool that essentially becomes a brick after it's done that one job.

And then there's that skill thing. Just 'cause I know how (intellectually) to adjust valves doesn't mean I'd be any good at it, the first time. If valve jobs were a monthly, or even an annual, service item, I'd be more willing to work up to it. In the meantime, our techs can do the job in the time it takes me to fully understand the service manual directions.

Just one of those things: nothing in my working career prepared me for fixing mechanical or electrical stuff. I just didn't do any kind of work that touched on that.

Doesn't bother me at all.

Now I get to learn all kinds of new and exciting skills... at my own pace.

-Chris
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Old 19-06-2017, 13:33   #58
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Re: Women and engines

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Well, as to the concept of hiring mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc. Four parts to that concept. First, not having the skills oneself. I don't have those skills and don't want to or intend to develop them.

That brings us to the second which is how one feels about doing those things. Some really enjoy them. I don't.

Then that brings me to the second part, which is value of time. I grew up in a business where all billings were time based, my father's accounting office. So, very quickly I knew the value of my time. Today I do a little bit of consulting and do so at outrageous rates so have a new value of my time. When you start valuing your own time, then the price someone else is charging for their time doesn't seem nearly as unreasonable.

Last do you have the money to pay for the work. It doesn't matter if $500 is reasonable or not, doesn't matter if I enjoy the work, if I don't have the $500 the plumber estimates, then I can't have him do the work.
BandB...as a former exec at a National CPA and Consulting firm I can totally relate with your hourly rate concept. I too consider what I would bill and cost to have someone else do it. Hence, car stuff, plumbing repairs at one of our rental properties or doing our taxes (I was in HR), definitely pay someone to do it. But....working on our yard when the weather is nice or working on my boat and learning something new and interesting I can be proud of later, then it's worth more to me than the cost. Probably the reason why most folks on this forum are spending the time typing and reading things for themselves.....it's more interesting, hopefully more enjoyable, and more fun than just having an expert do it all for you.
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Old 19-06-2017, 14:08   #59
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Women and engines

The hourly thing is what my Sister uses as an excuse for being lazy, and it would make sense if she stopped her Dentistry to mow the yard, except no one does that do they? They sit on the couch and watch TV while the plumber, electrician etc works. How much an hour do you bill, watching TV?
There are any number of ways to break down people, there are the type that will fix things themselves, and there are those that would rather others do the work for them.
For those that hire things out, I guess as long as you cruise close to civilization then assuming you can find good mechanics you'll be OK I guess, just don't get too far off the beaten path.

Ran into a nice couple in a very expensive motor yacht last year in the Dry Tortugas, they were stuck cause neither they nor the Professional Capt they hired to drive the boat could figure out why the fire extinguishing system had armed itself and had shut down air flow into the engine compt. and of course disabled the engines.

Overheated battery, I guess if I had not been there they would have had it towed back to Key West?

Yes, don't get very far.
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Old 19-06-2017, 14:54   #60
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Re: Women and engines

I understand the value of hourly time, I, too, was a consultant.

As far as boat issues, though, what a64 mentioned about that mega yacht makes me remind us all that many systems, particularly electrical should be considered safety items. No excuse not to learn. None of us was born an electrician, but the very least you can do is understand what you have and how it is supposed to work. I ran into a fella with a nice 42 foot boat with this back and forth:

just curious: jumper cables and a 1-2-B switch? Is your 1-2-B simply between the two house batteries?

Hi Stu, Do not know how the 1-2-B switch is wired, it seems to work just fine. Jumper cables were a simple solution for my simple mind.


He cruises to remote places.

I personally find that kind of approach mind boggling, scary and truly stupid and dangerous.

Your boat, your choice.
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