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Old 18-05-2014, 20:29   #226
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
The marriage thing is a business! From diamond cartels to dress makers to honeymoon packages... Peer pressure prevents many from prioritizing what they really want in their lives.
It s only a monything when you are already vested in another lifestyle and that is what the marriage business is all about.
Our marriage isn't that. We had a private wedding with only three guests. We professed our love to each other in our own way, through song and words. For us it was a very special day and being married to each other is special to us every day. We don't feel bound or tied forever. We feel right together. We've prioritized our lives but it starts with sharing life together. We knew our desires and hopes and beliefs were shared before we married.

For those for whom that's not the case we wish you the best in finding what makes you happy. However, please, we ask you not to minimize all marriages or classify them all in negative terms simply because it's not what works for you. We both know unhappy marriages having grown up witnessing our parents in them. We both felt like we'd never find anyone we wanted to marry and it wasn't for us. But when we met, we knew the difference. We felt things that were different and we still can't describe.

Now, we never try to force our lifestyle or choices on anyone else. If single life makes one happy that's great. Too many people get married for the wrong reasons. Even far worse in our minds are those who have kids for the wrong reasons. We were married in our hearts before the ceremony or license, but that day was still very special and being married to each other has a very deep meaning to us both. It's a word that sums up the depth of our love for each other, that does express how we're tied together. It's not the piece of paper to us. It's more what we said, what we sang, what we experienced and continue to. It's the love for each other we carry with us every day.

Just because some don't work, doesn't mean none work. Just because some do work, doesn't mean all should be married either. Find your own way. But don't cast dispersion's on the way others have found, the way that works for them, that is special to them.
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Old 18-05-2014, 20:46   #227
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

I've asked my husband's opinion about this thread. His advice.... Have you wife choose the boat.
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Old 18-05-2014, 20:55   #228
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

No dispersions intended on any individual relationships as my comments are based on a high marriage failure rate and the associated Divorce business.

Those who use marriage (or fear of divorce) as a reason to stay together have lost the plot and those who suffer the unhealthy quick judgements of overworked family courts have my sympathy

FYI. I have never gone through this and simply question the risk of allowing yourself to be controlled that way.

If a loving relationship is naturally sustainable then why allow society to interfere.
When I think of past rules against inter racial marriage I realize that society is not based on anything objective
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Old 18-05-2014, 21:35   #229
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

I also think a relationship based on a loving couple cruising to their agreed plan is the best we can hope for.
The "marriage part" is incidental.
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Old 18-05-2014, 22:08   #230
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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I also think a relationship based on a loving couple cruising to their agreed plan is the best we can hope for.
The "marriage part" is incidental.
Well, ignoring the legal differences and their potential impact, the marriage part does cause psychological changes as well. Some good, some bad. Impacts different people different ways. But even couples who live together for years and then marry may find the changes. It makes some feel more secure, some feel almost claustrophobic. Makes some feel empowered, others weakened as if they've given something up. Some stop working at their relationship and making if right as they feel like the crossed the finish line. Others feel like it's the beginning of the journey. Some it hits with some type of frightening finality. With us the best way I could describe it would be as the most orgasmic moment of our life. And I'm not saying anything sexual in that remark. But even there, if you've had the foreplay of dating, now the orgasm, you have to be careful. Keep wanting more and bigger ones or roll over in bed and go to sleep.

As happy as we are in our marriage, we believe the entire concept needs to be readdressed. There is something wrong with half of them don't work. And if it doesn't work, why does it have to lead to such hate so often? Seems illogical to go from love to hate. Why not just love to like or love to a different kind of love? But that's like break-ups of all sorts. The line "let's remain friends" but how often does it happen. And divorce. Honestly that's the process that leads to so much anger. The system is designed to force couples to be adversarial. I think of contracts and contract law. You enter a business relationship and you spell out in the contract how it ends. What if marriage was a contract that simply said if it stops working, here's what happens. And then somehow you part but peacefully. There's nothing to argue about because it was already decided.

A couple with kids decides this isn't working and maybe we'd like to start seeing others and move on but we both love the kids. Why can't they then live in separate bedrooms still in the house with the kids, date? Then only do something else when one of them finds someone.

Unfortunately things don't work like that. Not surprising as partnerships in business rarely work. Especially two partners both 50% owners. Who resolves a 1 to 1 vote? But then if you have three partners two can team up and one lose everything.

Ultimately, I think the real issue is openness, honesty and communication. Couples wait too late to communicate and then it comes out in hate and anger. Maybe it's not bad marriages that need counseling but good ones to keep them good. Preventative care. I know many marriages dissolve and the blame is cheating. But cheating is often a symptom, not the problem. It's a result of something much earlier not dealt with. It's from the moment either spouse even thinks of it. But even before because there were issues that led to that moment. A shocking statistic but wives are now cheating more than husbands and the number one reason is husband not there enough. How can someone go to their spouse and say, "I really miss you. I know you work so much for us, but I'd rather have you than the money. Can we work on a solution. I know it's not immediate but something." Now the one working cheats for the same reason, they've lost their intimacy though lack of time. Even sex has become just as alcohol and drugs a form of self medication.

We live in a tough world and it's certainly tough on relationships.
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Old 18-05-2014, 22:33   #231
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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Well, ignoring the legal differences and their potential impact, the marriage part does cause psychological changes as well. Some good, some bad.
That really is my point and I would go further to say that marriage reinforces those with good working relationships and destroys those with bad ones.

Mariage is only a social construct.
It is not real, cannot be defined..... but only described in vague ambiguous values that changes with the social mood of the day and ones own conditioned values.

We could take (Sharea law.. spelling?) as an extreme.

I find it difficult to promote such an unhealthy additive to a blossoming relationship.
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Old 18-05-2014, 22:47   #232
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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I've asked my husband's opinion about this thread. His advice.... Have you wife choose the boat.
My wife did.

I wanted a Nordhavn 46.

She wanted the larger interior the Bayliner 4788 offered.

We had a few discussions about the boat and I saw the light.

I named the boat "Lisas Way"
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Old 19-05-2014, 03:15   #233
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

I was dating a lovely lady in Florida and it was heading in a nice direction. She had two boys who were a little unruly and I had managed to involve them in my life and they were shaping us nicely. GOOd boys just a little lacking in direction.

Then we had the hurricanes.

I looked at the maps and the projected track, and followed it closely. I loaded my R.V. with supplies and medical equipment.

Come the day to decide, I said the best thing to do would be to head down the side of it and get behind it as it tore its way north.

She flat out looked at me and said "No". She was going to head in front of it all the way to Georgia.

I explained my reasoning. I told her that if she got stuck in traffic or if the vehicle broke down etc etc...I reminded her that the R.V. was fully set up with accomodation and food and emergency supplies and was very sturdy and heavy and the route planned would get us behind the storm and the periphal winds would be all that affected us if we left in the next 4 hours....... and she just blanked me out.

She said she was going and that was that.

I looked at the boys and they looked at me, concerned because they had come to respect me..... She just gathered them up and off she went..

I went down the East Coast, it was a little blowy ..... it was a rough tropical storm but not the full blown hurricane that others were experiencing.

She did get caught in traffic. They did experience the hurricane. The car was peppered and dinged and banged. And then there were the tornados afterward.

I went back home a day later, (after sleeping in an airconditioned environment, a cooked breakfast and all the comforts of home) after the hurricane passed through. The entire area had been decimated. My house was written off by FEMA....... it had to be really... nothing was left much. I moved a mobile trailer on the land and started cleaning up and rebuilding.

Our medical centre was up and running that same day and we worked shifts to deal with peoples immediate problems.. The Army were fantastic in the aid that they rendered. Some kind soul from out of state, trailered his BBQ business down and made free food for 3 weeks for all the locals. We all worked together to clear the mess. 8 months later, you would not have know a hurricane had visited.

When she came back a few days later, she came to visit me as though nothing had happened.

I told her that we would not work out. I wanted someone who worked with me and discuss things and trusted me enough to know that I might know a thing or two and had their safety as a paramount requirement in my life.

She went off on me that the children were her responsibility and she had to decide on everything and no man was going to decide her actions for her, either work with her or get out of the way!

Well that told me.

I never saw her again. I did read somewhere that she got married a few years later, and wondered if her new husband knew of the unsaid ground rules

Marriage would have rendered the situation untenable. I had been dating her for 2 years and never really got to know her. It is SO important to have mutual respect honesty and trust...... and to know someone.

had she been a highly trained and experienced Emergency Medical Respondent with a background in rescue work on land and sea, I would gladly have defered to her superior knowledge. I really would.

Oh well. Saved by a Hurricane. I can only imagine if she did not want to go boating how extra miserable I would feel......
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Old 19-05-2014, 18:13   #234
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

Be careful Weavis less you get called out for a bitter, old curmudgeon that hates women.
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Old 20-05-2014, 04:24   #235
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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Our marriage isn't that. We had a private wedding with only three guests. We professed our love to each other in our own way, through song and words. For us it was a very special day and being married to each other is special to us every day. We don't feel bound or tied forever. We feel right together. We've prioritized our lives but it starts with sharing life together. We knew our desires and hopes and beliefs were shared before we married.

For those for whom that's not the case we wish you the best in finding what makes you happy. However, please, we ask you not to minimize all marriages or classify them all in negative terms simply because it's not what works for you. We both know unhappy marriages having grown up witnessing our parents in them. We both felt like we'd never find anyone we wanted to marry and it wasn't for us. But when we met, we knew the difference. We felt things that were different and we still can't describe.

Now, we never try to force our lifestyle or choices on anyone else. If single life makes one happy that's great. Too many people get married for the wrong reasons. Even far worse in our minds are those who have kids for the wrong reasons. We were married in our hearts before the ceremony or license, but that day was still very special and being married to each other has a very deep meaning to us both. It's a word that sums up the depth of our love for each other, that does express how we're tied together. It's not the piece of paper to us. It's more what we said, what we sang, what we experienced and continue to. It's the love for each other we carry with us every day.

Just because some don't work, doesn't mean none work. Just because some do work, doesn't mean all should be married either. Find your own way. But don't cast dispersion's on the way others have found, the way that works for them, that is special to them.
Thanks for that BandB. You've stated it very well. Your next post is also right on.

Even great relationships get bruised by life. With time comes complacency--a great danger in marriages as with so many other things. I watch many couples who have been together for decades, and often wonder if their partnership should have survived. Of course, those who split face drastically reduced life styles & being alone at a time when couples should stand together.

Oh this is too heavy for this early in the day. Going to get another cuppa.
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Old 20-05-2014, 05:24   #236
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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Be careful Weavis less you get called out for a bitter, old curmudgeon that hates women.
I know.. sob!
Forgive me..
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Old 20-05-2014, 06:18   #237
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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I know many marriages dissolve and the blame is cheating. But cheating is often a symptom, not the problem. It's a result of something much earlier not dealt with. It's from the moment either spouse even thinks of it. But even before because there were issues that led to that moment. A shocking statistic but wives are now cheating more than husbands and the number one reason is husband not there enough. How can someone go to their spouse and say, "I really miss you. I know you work so much for us, but I'd rather have you than the money. Can we work on a solution. I know it's not immediate but something." Now the one working cheats for the same reason, they've lost their intimacy though lack of time. Even sex has become just as alcohol and drugs a form of self medication.

We live in a tough world and it's certainly tough on relationships.
Now! You have begun to zero in on the real issue! These " men" that are being called " bitter" or "woman haters" are frequently guys that have been blindsided by females with a hidden agenda or hidden problem. Being lied to about cruising is nothing compared to being " traded up" during your breeding years.

I am over 60 years old and in my life experience 50% of all men I have met cheated on their wife. Astoundingly, in excess of 70% of all wives cheated. The 50% of men who do not cheat are getting a bad rap from the common notion that men are the source of the problem. By your own admission cheating wives outnumber cheating hubbies.

Personal disgust with this behaviour does not mean a person hates women, actually its the opposite. Its natural to object to being lied to and ripped off.
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Old 20-05-2014, 06:45   #238
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

Idora, I agree with your premise, but have to disagree with some of your stats. In my experience, 95% of the men I knew well enough to judge (I was a single woman who worked & socialized in a male-dominated world) cheated on their wives at some point. Well, perhaps some just wanted to but never got there... if you get my drift.

On the other hand, I never had the impression women cheated much at all. Perhaps that's because I never had a woman come on to me. (Well, ok, once, but she was with her husband at the time.)
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Old 20-05-2014, 06:58   #239
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

I believe if you look up the "stats" you'll find women are more likely to be unfaithful, but the stereotype is that the man is.

I know that my time in the Army, most men that were stationed with me in Korea stayed faithful, but none, not even one of the women that went did.
Of course is the military woman a "typical" woman?

Either way, it has become normal and fashionable to be divorced in our society, in our parents days it was looked down upon, now if your not divorced by 50, people wonder what's wrong, they assume you are tolerating something in your relationship that you shouldn't.

One thing that concerns me, is the single Mother is applauded, it's almost as if it were something to aspire to.
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Old 20-05-2014, 06:59   #240
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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Idora, I agree with your premise, but have to disagree with some of your stats. In my experience, 95% of the men I knew well enough to judge (I was a single woman who worked & socialized in a male-dominated world) cheated on their wives at some point. Well, perhaps some just wanted to but never got there... if you get my drift.

On the other hand, I never had the impression women cheated much at all. Perhaps that's because I never had a woman come on to me. (Well, ok, once, but she was with her husband at the time.)
One of the reasons I truly enjoy CF is all the good folks on here from all around the planet. Where else could you get so many posts trying to help some stranger who wants to go sailing but who's life circumstances are getting in the way.
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