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Old 09-05-2014, 16:59   #166
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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Your dream is sailing the 7 sea's.. Totally ridiculous..
Her dream is staying put and surrounding herself with grandkids.. Totally ridiculous..
Neither of those dreams are ridiculous by normal standards. They're not even mutually exclusive. Becoming a grandparent doesn't require any action on one's part, just having children old enough to get pregnant is all it takes. You can even take the kids cruising with you, as long as everyone is ready for it.
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Old 09-05-2014, 17:18   #167
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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That involves a LOT of time in the shop with no windows working on the boat -
umm... ok........ put some windows in.
Jes sayin'
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Old 09-05-2014, 17:18   #168
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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Neither of those dreams are ridiculous by normal standards. They're not even mutually exclusive. Becoming a grandparent doesn't require any action on one's part, just having children old enough to get pregnant is all it takes. You can even take the kids cruising with you, as long as everyone is ready for it.
Boatman was being sarcastic....that shows how far this thread has gone that his sarcasm isn't obvious because it's tamer than many of the serious posts.
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Old 10-05-2014, 01:44   #169
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

B&B:

As far as your relationship is concerned, you seem to have an agreement that each of you will put the other first. This is one secret of happy, long-lasting marriage.

There is another secret of long lasting marriage: compatible neurosis.

Finally, after plowing through all the misogynist complaints by bitter men, I want to tell them that damning all women for what you never saw coming is okay if that's how you want to live, but it does not allow you to ever get your act together to be in a meaningful relationship with a women--the choice is yours. You might try guys, you might find them more predictable.

Men are in ways mysterious to women, also. What it is, if you want a relationship, as B&B suggest: you both have to commit to working at it. Then the rewards will be there, at sea, at home (if you have one other than a boat) wherever, because it's a different commitment. Making the relationship work trumps "my dream", your "dream": we live "our" dream, and it's a process, not all in place in a moment.

Finally, I'd like to commend Annie in WA's early post: if you're a man who finds himself in the position of the OP, her words are worth another read.

Ann
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Old 10-05-2014, 02:17   #170
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

Ever wake up and wonder if the day is going to be a good one or a bad one? Guess what, the days are all the same, your perception of events creates your moods.

I was happy before I got married, happy for 30 years of marriage, and happy now that I'm single again. Happy is your decision. If anyone thinks someone else can make them happy they are setting themselves up for failure.

How does this help the OP? It doesn't. You're at a cross roads in your life. Asking strangers for directions is really not the best idea.

Good luck,

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Old 10-05-2014, 12:45   #171
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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Ever wake up and wonder if the day is going to be a good one or a bad one? Guess what, the days are all the same, your perception of events creates your moods.

I was happy before I got married, happy for 30 years of marriage, and happy now that I'm single again. Happy is your decision. If anyone thinks someone else can make them happy they are setting themselves up for failure.

How does this help the OP? It doesn't. You're at a cross roads in your life. Asking strangers for directions is really not the best idea.

Good luck,

Goat

While you are technically correct that one is responsible for one's happiness, that in no way excuses other people's (read the generic ex-wife) diabolical attempts to destroy your life.

They CAN make your life miserable, and being "happy" while your life is being torn upside down is delusional, at best. After it's all over, then one can go back to being happy, but there is nothing wrong with being honest about what is happening at the moment and justifiably waging the appropriate level of war.

I don't see anything wrong with asking for advice from a group, he's gotten a wide variety of opinions here. As long as the final decision is based on his own needs and not by some sort of poll or public pressure.

The relationship is composed of two people, and how they interreact is unique to that one relationship, other relationships they've had or will have will be different, perhaps vastly different. I've met couples who were even partners, or the hubby was a control freak, or the wife was the parent and the hubby was still a kid, or any combination.

As far as I'm concerned, regardless of which type of relationship they have, it's very important that they remain honest with each other, and that includes keeping one's promises. It seems to me that she originally agreed to share his dream and now she's backing out of it. That is deceitful, and I think it should be resolved however he wants to before they can go back to being numb, errr, happy.
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Old 10-05-2014, 13:33   #172
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
B&B:

As far as your relationship is concerned, you seem to have an agreement that each of you will put the other first. This is one secret of happy, long-lasting marriage.

There is another secret of long lasting marriage: compatible neurosis.

Finally, after plowing through all the misogynist complaints by bitter men, I want to tell them that damning all women for what you never saw coming is okay if that's how you want to live, but it does not allow you to ever get your act together to be in a meaningful relationship with a women--the choice is yours. You might try guys, you might find them more predictable.

Men are in ways mysterious to women, also. What it is, if you want a relationship, as B&B suggest: you both have to commit to working at it. Then the rewards will be there, at sea, at home (if you have one other than a boat) wherever, because it's a different commitment. Making the relationship work trumps "my dream", your "dream": we live "our" dream, and it's a process, not all in place in a moment.

Finally, I'd like to commend Annie in WA's early post: if you're a man who finds himself in the position of the OP, her words are worth another read.

Ann
So right Ann. Not just in marriage, blaming the other person in life in general only leads to frustration and turmoil. On average, it's 50/50. But when you blame the other person and they blame it all on you, there will never be resolution. Ultimately we choose and we control. While I do attribute finding happiness to my wife, I also know that I had to let her in, I had to be receptive, and a lot of my happiness is that I continue to want to be happy. She asserts, and with some truth, that before her I had a lot of chances for happiness, but didn't let it in. Perhaps the biggest lesson we each learned from the other was to let happiness in and live with it. I can assure you that there are many aspects of our lives together and our friends and acquired family that most here would be astonished by and is strong disapproval but we've found what works for us. We have our own rules and break a lot that others might have but then have some others don't. Together we've done some things others might label nicely as "crazy" or not so nicely as "totally insane." But somehow we've found what works for us. And at no time have we patterned our lives or marriage on the basis of what someone else thinks it should be.

Oh, and I'll never damn all women. I love women. I love my wife. We also have great friends who are women. And if anyone came on here damning one of them, I'd be fighting them. So we damn our wives, girlfriends and others on a forum because we can do it somewhat anonymously. Some of you might want to think about how they'd feel reading what you're writing. Hurt? Angry? Not the best route to happiness.

Wifey B: Guys more predictable? hehe....not my guy. Maybe he was before me, but I sure changed that part. Although honestly we're sort of predictable to each other. But he does things now that surprise and shock others and I just smile and think, "That's my man." We thrive on being a bit out there and not so predictable. But then that leads to some of the greatest moments of life. Heck....I do have to watch my words here....so used a euphemism...we picked up parents along the way. Yeah, that's right. Birth parents not so great. So we found some on our first trip ever together. Real ones we love and who love us. Just them and their daughter, our sister by that logic, were at our wedding. We relocated and moved our neighbors to join us. Our CFO and one or our best friends paid her way through college stripping. We have no earthly idea what insane thing either of us might do tomorrow. We love warm weather and yet June and July are spending in Alaska.

Ok, my word for the day, "PASSION". It's a key to happiness. For real. Little ole me wouldn't kid you. Ok, get your mind out of the gutter. Yes, it does include sexual passion and love but it's far more. Passion for life. Passion for sailing. Passion for water. Passion for the love of your life. We're both passionate about so many things from each other to our friends to music to so many things. But our lives are filled with those passions. We wake each day passionate and not just because we're there together naked either. Passionate about the day. About the people we'll meet. Today it's about the Makah Indians. Who knows tomorrow. Passionate to learn new things. Experience new. We both lacked this. My hubby really did. He was successful, brilliant (fine for me to say), handsome (me too, he is my man), financially ok, but he just walked through life, existed. Don't do that. Live life to its fullest. Look forward to today and tomorrow. Doesn't matter what you find, just find something. Even if it's just because you're going to have pot roast for dinner tonight, I don't care. But life needs passion. End of lecture for today. Sorry, I am passionate about that.
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Old 10-05-2014, 13:45   #173
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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We are about less than 6 months away from realizing my dream of cruising from Southern California down to Mexico and exploring the Sea of Cortez and mainland Mex. This dream started turning into reality when we bought a Tartan 30 about 3 years ago and cruised it on the weekends back and forth to Catalina Island. We decided that we wanted to prepare for a Mexico trip. We saved a good chunk of money, sold the Tartan and bought a cruise ready Islander 36.

This past month we took our Islander to the shipyard for bottom-paint, work on the propellor shaft/stuffing box and to check out the through-hulls and any other pertinent issues that we might find. What we were thinking was going to be a $3000 dollar trip turned into a $7500 dollar trip.

My wife is fed up with how much money we are hemorrhaging at this point. We still have the cruising kitty where we want it but she can't believe how much money we are blowing right now on this boat. She just gave me a semi serious ultimatum of the boat goes or I go. I love my wife and would gladly sacrifice this dream for her but something tells me I can have both.

I feel like we are giving up right when we are closest to achieving our dream. Any suggestions?
Will go back and read the other replies - but will say to you right now: Axe the wife, metaphorically not literally, from your life. If you succumb to her 'ultimatum' you may think it will make her happy, but she will disrespect you for not standing up for yourself and your dream--though she will never admit it. By succumbing you not only lose your knackers, you will be miserable and blame your wife forever for denying you your dream. But the only person to blame will be YOU.

However - if you succumb and do as she says like a good little doormat that gets trod over, and you don't feel like you got your knackers cut off, or feel miserable, and don't blame her for destroying your dream - then you never wanted to really go to sea in the first place.
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Old 10-05-2014, 13:48   #174
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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So right Ann. Not just in marriage, blaming the other person in life in general only leads to frustration and turmoil. On average, it's 50/50. But when you blame the other person and they blame it all on you, there will never be resolution. Ultimately we choose and we control. While I do attribute finding happiness to my wife, I also know that I had to let her in, I had to be receptive, and a lot of my happiness is that I continue to want to be happy. She asserts, and with some truth, that before her I had a lot of chances for happiness, but didn't let it in. Perhaps the biggest lesson we each learned from the other was to let happiness in and live with it. I can assure you that there are many aspects of our lives together and our friends and acquired family that most here would be astonished by and is strong disapproval but we've found what works for us. We have our own rules and break a lot that others might have but then have some others don't. Together we've done some things others might label nicely as "crazy" or not so nicely as "totally insane." But somehow we've found what works for us. And at no time have we patterned our lives or marriage on the basis of what someone else thinks it should be.

Oh, and I'll never damn all women. I love women. I love my wife. We also have great friends who are women. And if anyone came on here damning one of them, I'd be fighting them. So we damn our wives, girlfriends and others on a forum because we can do it somewhat anonymously. Some of you might want to think about how they'd feel reading what you're writing. Hurt? Angry? Not the best route to happiness.

Wifey B: Guys more predictable? hehe....not my guy. Maybe he was before me, but I sure changed that part. Although honestly we're sort of predictable to each other. But he does things now that surprise and shock others and I just smile and think, "That's my man." We thrive on being a bit out there and not so predictable. But then that leads to some of the greatest moments of life. Heck....I do have to watch my words here....so used a euphemism...we picked up parents along the way. Yeah, that's right. Birth parents not so great. So we found some on our first trip ever together. Real ones we love and who love us. Just them and their daughter, our sister by that logic, were at our wedding. We relocated and moved our neighbors to join us. Our CFO and one or our best friends paid her way through college stripping. We have no earthly idea what insane thing either of us might do tomorrow. We love warm weather and yet June and July are spending in Alaska.

Ok, my word for the day, "PASSION". It's a key to happiness. For real. Little ole me wouldn't kid you. Ok, get your mind out of the gutter. Yes, it does include sexual passion and love but it's far more. Passion for life. Passion for sailing. Passion for water. Passion for the love of your life. We're both passionate about so many things from each other to our friends to music to so many things. But our lives are filled with those passions. We wake each day passionate and not just because we're there together naked either. Passionate about the day. About the people we'll meet. Today it's about the Makah Indians. Who knows tomorrow. Passionate to learn new things. Experience new. We both lacked this. My hubby really did. He was successful, brilliant (fine for me to say), handsome (me too, he is my man), financially ok, but he just walked through life, existed. Don't do that. Live life to its fullest. Look forward to today and tomorrow. Doesn't matter what you find, just find something. Even if it's just because you're going to have pot roast for dinner tonight, I don't care. But life needs passion. End of lecture for today. Sorry, I am passionate about that.
Is this thread about you or him?

I'm glad you guys have found passion for life together, I wish everyone was so fortunate. The reality is his wife gave him an ultimatum, which is not what one does if one wants their partner to be happy and have a passion for life, kind of the opposite.

Focus. It's not just an econo car from Ford.
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Old 10-05-2014, 14:34   #175
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

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Is this thread about you or him?

I'm glad you guys have found passion for life together, I wish everyone was so fortunate. The reality is his wife gave him an ultimatum, which is not what one does if one wants their partner to be happy and have a passion for life, kind of the opposite.

Focus. It's not just an econo car from Ford.
Well, it's not a one sided problem. Perhaps he gave her a reason to give it. Regardless it's something he and she need to work out so they can be happy. Find their passion. And we're not saying it's necessarily together. It may not be. She gave an ultimatum per his post. Bad. He pushed her to that point, perhaps. Bad. They're not figuring out the solution together, but separately.
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Old 10-05-2014, 14:54   #176
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Re: Wife is close to axing cruising dreams

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...

Sorry, "I'm going sailing whether you like it or not" and "If you go sailing we're through" are both wrong in my view. I'd rather see "Let's discuss this and figure out what is best for both of us." Then, figure it out and go with it, whatever it is.
B&B, your posts are great.

Thing about this one? Not so much.

Why?

'Cuz I recall he clearly said they had worked it out together beforehand. She changed her mind.

Not fair.

Not unreasonable to change one's mind, but is unreasonable to deliver "semi-ultimatums."
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Old 10-05-2014, 14:59   #177
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Re: Wife is close to axing cruising dreams

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So idiotic feminist centric or cave man? Are those the only two options you see? Equal isn't a choice in your world? Both looking out for themselves and the other?

Sorry, "I'm going sailing whether you like it or not" and "If you go sailing we're through" are both wrong in my view. I'd rather see "Let's discuss this and figure out what is best for both of us." Then, figure it out and go with it, whatever it is.
The "lets talk about it" approach works great...up to a point.

The challenge is that at some point if one partner won't go, the other has to either

1. Give up their dream
2. Go alone

All the talk and being nice sometimes wont change that.

What I find surprising about this thread is so few posts that say "stay married but go alone anyway" There is nothing wrong with that. Just because one partner wants to go cruising does not mean they have to split up.

This is a very viable option with an older couple. Perhaps the guy wants to go cruising and the gal wants to stay at home and grow flowers. Whats wrong with both of them living their dream? The guy can go cruise, come home as often as needed or wanted and live his dream. The wife can live her dream as well. Perhaps she will join him from time to time and realize its funner than she thought. Perhaps he will try it out and realize its not as fun as he thought it was.

I guess I'm saying that going cruising alone doesn't mean divorce, it just means one partner is going cruising. It doesn't need to be filled with drama or be a big deal.

Ultimatums are a big deal. As independent people my wife and I do not do ultimatums. As I indicated in an earlier post, she tried that once, and I called her bluff. She respects me and wont do that again. I would never give her an ultimatium. But that is a separate issue from cruising together.
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Old 10-05-2014, 15:01   #178
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Re: Wife is close to axing cruising dreams

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B&B, your posts are great.

Thing about this one? Not so much.

Why?

'Cuz I recall he clearly said they had worked it out together beforehand. She changed her mind.

Not fair.

Not unreasonable to change one's mind, but is unreasonable to deliver "semi-ultimatums."
Ah but you think he never changed his mind. Maybe the basis on which they worked it out changed. Perception of finances. I don't know. None of us do. But perhaps finding out what changed could help them. Something pushed them both to this point.

My wife and I were going to live on the lake in NC until at least we were older, then maybe move to the TN river. Now we're living in Fort Lauderdale and at present cruising in Washington. As to how much time we spend on the water, still figuring it out. Right now 2/3 of our time. Quite imagine that changing over the years.

One doesn't go from all in to all out overnight.
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Old 10-05-2014, 15:08   #179
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

Slugmaster, if you're still around,

You ARE at a crossroads. You can split your relationship asunder over this. Or your wife can. Or you can together figure out a way ahead.

Honestly, I think she might come to like cruising, given the chance. If you polarize the issue it certainly can split you. If you want to go cruising, and with her, then you must make it possible for her to come with you, and that may involve bits and pieces of many of the suggestions above relative to calming her concerns about the financial end of things, or if there is another underlying problem, deal with that (whatever it/they may be). It needs to be a process that the two of you feel your way through together, and it may feel scary to both of you while you're doing it.

There are some posters here who seem to think taking part in trying to work it out would lessen your manhood. FWIW, I disagree, I think it takes a lot of courage and heart to try and open up to such a process.

Incidentally, the reality in this situation is that woman may be in the position if she chooses to go with him now, she will be giving up some dream of her own--that would make what Slugmaster characterized as an almost-ultimatum possibly her opening move in a discussion.

We all interpret his OP a bit differently, as we process what Slugmaster wrote, it comes through our "filter", made by our reactions to our own life experiences. There's really been quite a variety here.

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Old 10-05-2014, 16:52   #180
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Re: Wife is Close to Axing Cruising Dreams

What a lengthy thread. I agree with many of the posters-- e.g. "don't take relationship advice from divorced men" yup.

I'm a happily married woman. Hubby and I have been together since 1980...so 34 years in the relationship. We agreed that we wanted to go cruising "someday" way back then, too. Agreed that we'd be living aboard by the time we'd been married 25 years. Learned to sail in the early '80's, did all the right stuff to save money and get a boat and go sailing. Got the boat and now live aboard and cruise. It works if both partners share the dream and work towards the dream together. We've shared many dreams together and achieved many goals together. We have owned businesses together and worked side-by-side to make a lot of good things happen for US. It's never for him and it's never for me--its about US in our relationship.

Shoving "my dream" in to my husband's face has never worked for me. Shoving his dream in my face has never worked for him. Talking about what each of us value and working together to make a "joint dream" is what works for us.

I read the OP's post several pages back:

"The sailing does turn her off to some extent. She gets excited from time to time about it and we have fun at Catalina, I think we even get along a lot better when we are on the boat but overall the sailing aspect is boring for her. I explained to her that the majority of time we'll be at anchor and the fun part for her will be meeting cool people traveling and we both won't have to work at 9-5 jobs. This seemed to sit well with her; that the majority of cruising is being at anchor. I tried to frame it that this boat is our vehicle to travel the world at a leisurely pace."

What I thought was he's trying to find the "hook" that will get her into his dream. He's sort of peddling the dream by presenting it a certain way. I don't like sales jobs, btw.

Better approach? He did say they planned/saved together, right? So, he could ask her what HER dream of their sailing life looks like. Also what was HER budget for all this? Then, seriously try to rein in the spending so that they're able to be within the budget; also start doing the stuff that assures that the dream is recognizable to her as well as to him.

It's really not that hard to have an honest discussion about what is truly important to her and how that overlaps with what is truly important to him. Whenever hubby and I are working to achieve something, we keep a list of all the important attributes and try to make sure that we're keeping those things in the picture.

I hope the OP is still reading all this stuff, and I hope he will sit down together with his life partner and go over what is needed now to get both him and her onboard the same view of the same dream. No selling, no bait-and-switch, just an honest discussion of the realities.

Financial realities can be very harsh--open discussion and tough decision-making by both parties are probably required.

Best of luck to everyone in achieving their cruising dreams.
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