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Old 03-01-2014, 20:07   #346
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pirate Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Woman gives birth in Walmart parking lot | News - Home

well there you go...how many issues in this thread does this one incident cover?


Like I said, Nature always wins in the end.

IMF paper warns of 'savings tax' and mass write-offs as West's debt hits 200-year high - Telegraph
Man.. you take trivial pursuits way to seriously...
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Old 03-01-2014, 20:14   #347
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Re: Save the Planet!

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of course I am...and I owe you a Beer mi Amigo
Here's what I'm drinking now in your honor
You scoundrel. When you look away, I'm gonna drop my cig butt in it.

Buenas Noches.
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Old 03-01-2014, 20:15   #348
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Re: Save the Planet!

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It's not that easy mike, humans are unlike any other animal , I think that's clear. So the damage we have done is worse then any other animal , and the clean up will require effort then other animals cannot comprehend. I don't think you can generalise the human race to the level of a simple animal.
Yes, our evolutionary adaptions (big brains accompanied with mass social structures) have allowed us to occupy and dominate huge parts of the Earth's biosphere. Other species have done the same. Heck, we are here b/c certain bacteria started to produce oxygen, which completely decimated and altered the planet some 2.5 billion years ago -- how's that for global damage!

So yes, our evolutionary adaptions have allowed homo sapiens to become one of the most successful species this planet has ever evolved. But that doesn't make us unnatural. What would be unnatural is if we voluntarily halted our expansion and exploitation. THAT would make us different. But as I keeps saying, I see no real evidence that we are voluntarily scaling back our impacts. Why should we? We're just simple animals.
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Old 03-01-2014, 20:19   #349
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Re: Save the Planet!

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I like your answer and reasoning about us being just like every other species, but where I see it breaking down is your concept of us breaking out of the normal evolutionaly track. Are you not asking the Sea Otters to stop hunting for clams and start eating tofu?
Yes. You've got it. That's exactly what I'm saying Third. Our task is equivalent to asking sea otters to stop hunting clams. This is exactly my point.
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Old 03-01-2014, 20:33   #350
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Re: Save the Planet!

> And just who is going to educate women in Muslim countries??
You mean like Indonesia (with the largest Muslim population of any country) and the rest of South/South East Asia which combined has well over 60% of the world population of Muslims? From what I've seen, they are doing pretty well by themselves.
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Old 03-01-2014, 21:25   #351
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Re: Save the Planet!

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The Irony of this issue is that my environmental and carbon footprint, as someone living on a mooring ball off the grid, is dramatically smaller than those lecturing us that we must do something to save the planet. So in the conventional measurement, I'm a better person for caring more than "you".

It's the classic Al Gore, "do as I say, not as I do". It also shows me that even those that claim to be true believes arn't. Because if they were, they wouldn't be supporting the "system" that they claim is killing the planet.

So why post here about what needs to be done to save the planet, when even those posting it are not walking the talk? Well in my experience the answer varries and we have seen about all of them on display in this thread. From pseudointellectuals to masterminds everyone likes to take the high road in talk, but then in action burn that carbon fuel in their yuppy sports car and McMansion homes while posting about saving the planet online.A thread which by the way is using energy from their laptop to continue, energy that in the USA comes 40% from Dirty Coal...

If you really want to "Save the Planet", stop talking about it and go do it! Get that Cruising Boat Ready and cast off! Because the longer you wait, the less time you will have to enjoy what's left of the Planet you are killing by living.
You sound bitter. I highlighted the section that applies to my ilk, the yuppy sports car part, I seem to have lost my mc mansion. I wonder what the carbon footprint of a self/user built car weighing less than 2000lb with a stock small V8 , costing under 20k, that averages over thirty + mpg is? Far better than the average pickup. Perfection destroys perspective. I happen to have collected cars and motorcycles over the years. Turns out that what I thought would be a good investment, (my idea of an IRA) is , from an environmental POV not the best. But then again it could be much worse, say a half a dozen Hummers! I'll just redistribute the cars and keep what suits my needs. Blk and white condemnations are useless and misleading. Each of us is limited in awareness and circumstance when it comes to making the best decisions/choices. We live in the real world. I am absolutely certain your circumstances are no where near as pristine as you suggest. Everyone needs to start where you are, and scale back as far as situation, family, finance etc permits. With the goal of continued progress in mind. Wanna buy and 64 ELCamino, or a 70 MGB, kit Cobra? Or some motorcycles?
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Old 03-01-2014, 21:33   #352
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Re: Save the Planet!

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You sound bitter.
Unfortunately, sometimes bitter and sarcasam can come across the same..
El Camino....only if I can get it with Astroturff in the back...ha ha ha

I'm lusting after a VW Van at the moment....
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Old 03-01-2014, 21:42   #353
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Re: Save the Planet!

That's the problem with communicating on a forum. Hard to read nuance. Seee this is how I get in trouble. Someone shows me a pic like this, (carporn) and I start remembering my bus, my youth, what was her name?, maybe if I can buy the bus she'll come back!
I'm as I said liquidating and may get a long wheel base Sprinter. Built that camper into a situation I can fit in. Then no house. Travel by sea and by land.
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Old 03-01-2014, 21:52   #354
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Re: Save the Planet!

Algore needs to practice what he preaches.

Lake Effect,
Algore needs to PRACTICE WHAT HE PREACHES. Plain and simple.
He is a hyppocrate of the first order and a charlatain.

I practice what I preach, although I'm no tree hugger. I just do what's practical.
Solar on the boat. No diesel for heat, electricity, hot water from the inverter.
Solar takes care of hot water, lighting watermaker etc. Lithium batteries. Aerogel insulation. It's a combination.
Home's got solar/wind/grid tie with 700 aH 24 volt Lithiums. Triple pane windows.
Simple but comfortable needs.
I drive an old Geo Metro.

Does Algore do any of these things? I doubt it.

I walk the walk.
DO YOU???

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Old 03-01-2014, 22:23   #355
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Re: Save the Planet!

So the guy who works at the jiffy lube is going to have the same needs and requirements as the guy who run's a nation? There will always be people in and around our lives that require more in order to accomplish what we ask them to do. It's a matter of scale. And if we're for capitalism, and my guess is that you are, than those who produce more get more. If we just take you or I for example. We're sitting here tapping away on our keyboards, interacting with half a dozens folks. Doesn't take much infrastructure to pull that off. Bump that up to interacting with thousands of folks on a weekly bases and the needed resources climb. Often to the level of personal or leased air craft. These facts have nothing to do with politics or parties.
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Old 03-01-2014, 23:05   #356
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Algore needs to practice what he preaches
I have it from reliable sources that algore does practice birth control.
I think he has coined it … ‘algorithm’

Seriously far too many semantic games going on here to actually Save the Planet.

Rich…. You cannot compare a spider’s web with earth moving machinery nor deny the fact that the industrial-corporate complex supports your commendable low profile ability to live on a mooring and sell R/O units. (by the way. ….the sea otter doesn’t have the option to eat tofu…. Only we do)

Mike and others… take a stand… don’t distract with natural vs un-natural word games. Sure we have the natural urge to consume everything in sight, but I had hoped that we also have acquired the intelligence to recognize the severe consequences before the laws of supply and demand take over in a horrific war and mutual destruction of everything in the planet.

Lake Effect…you chastised me for being negative and selfish in my early posts
.
"If for whatever reason you've given up, you think there's nothing meaningful to be done, and you are content to simply enjoy what remains of your life (afloat or ashore)... fine, it's your right. But for heaven's sake keep your negative opinions to yourself. STFU. There's work to be done and you're just discouraging those who have to do it."


Ok I accepted that and tried very hard to set up some ground rules to solve the problem with Hypeer’s help on the numbers. Then the word games began to distract from the goal

I have even better solutions within Camp 3, but am afraid it would shock most….

So I am back to this my original post….. for now!
Guy’s prove me wrong!


“One of the main reasons I ran away to Sea was to avoid the temptation of wanting to save the Planet.
I knew if I ruled the world, I was capable of exercising the toughest of love.

To achieve that meant a conscious effort for me NOT to procreate…. as it always seemed to be the catalyst for people losing their objectivity on whom should be saved.

Instead I chose to experience the very best of what the remote areas of this Planet had to offer while the tides of change washed away my footprints in the sand, but not my memories.

I am quite sure the world will save itself one day and I will accept that with a wry smile about the importance of being selfish!”
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Old 03-01-2014, 23:07   #357
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Re: Save the Planet!

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I have even better solutions within Camp 3, but am afraid it would shock most….
Ok...I'm on my 3rd Blue Moon Beer....so lets hear that shocking solution you have for us?
Oh and about Tofu...I'd rather eat the Sea Otter.....ha ha.
And yes, I admit that my low carbon footprint lifestyle is made doable by high carbon activities on land. But then again these days we are all living off of the backs of the poor guy in China that made my ever cheaper solar panels and "stuff" right? So I guess my spider web analogy is more apt that orginally thought since the whole system is interconnected these days. Damn...so much for my smugness, see what you've done...ratts.
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Old 03-01-2014, 23:14   #358
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Re: Save the Planet!

Nah…… I’m sulking right now Rich….no one else want to be in Camp 3

Also had a hard day on SG pulling new wires… hope all is well
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Old 04-01-2014, 00:19   #359
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Re: Save the Planet!

The major problem we have is burning fossil fuel, and all that it allows.
A simple solution is to 'nationalize' all oil and gas production and make the cost of burning it very high. This is not really possible because there is no one nation to take control of it,
but it could be done in the US.

The second issue is to change the political system (in the US) into a more citizen-based, not professional hired politicians. Stop all mass market advertising.
'Free speech' means you can say what you want, not you can spend millions or billions of dollars doing mass 'speeching' 30 second (or less) slogans/lies.

Finally, a smaller, but more personal issue is the erosion of scientific 'value'.
Less and less basic university funding, more strings-attached corporate support.
Attack by right-wingers that scientists 'can't be trusted' (but we can trust DOW, BP?)
We need to encourage engineering and science research.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:08   #360
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Re: Save the Planet!

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The major problem we have is burning fossil fuel, and all that it allows.
Or looking at it zoomed out a bit, the major problem is that the primate we know as homo sapiens is no more consciously in control of its development as a species globally long term than plankton
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