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Old 03-01-2014, 18:46   #331
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
And just who is going to educate women in Muslim countries??

they were for example well educated in Iraq, before the country fell around them , many muslim countries are not modelled after Saudi Arabia, Been to Turkey for example? , Tunisia , Morocco etc

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Old 03-01-2014, 18:57   #332
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pirate Re: Save the Planet!

A lot of folk consider themselves 'outside nature'...
The world is only 6000 years old and dinosaur bones etc were put there by some creator to test us...
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Old 03-01-2014, 19:01   #333
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Re: Save the Planet!

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A lot of folk consider themselves 'outside nature'...
The world is only 6000 years old and dinosaur bones etc were put there by some creator to test us...
Holy Smokes...now lets throw in Religion...we might as well merge this with an Anchor and Guns Aboard Thread!
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Old 03-01-2014, 19:04   #334
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pirate Re: Save the Planet!

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Holy Smokes...now lets throw in Religion...we might as well merge this with an Anchor and Guns Aboard Thread!
If folk throw out dumb statements.. don't cry about dumb people exist answers..
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Old 03-01-2014, 19:12   #335
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Re: Save the Planet!

Woman gives birth in Walmart parking lot | News - Home

well there you go...how many issues in this thread does this one incident cover?


Like I said, Nature always wins in the end.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...year-high.html
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Old 03-01-2014, 19:42   #336
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Re: Save the Planet!

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So algore saying don't do what I do, do what I SAY is ok?
Not in my book.

Set a good example is more like it.
Have a glass of Koolaid...
Spell it out. To be credible, Al Gore must ____________.
Be as specific as you like. Share the flavour of your own tall glass o' Kool-Aid.

You're of course just rigging the game. If Al lived in a grass hut on the shore, you'd just find another equally pointless excuse to ignore him.

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It doesn't work that way in a Life and Death Crisis, which is exactly what Al Gore and his types say we are in.

If the life raft is...
Not true. Important subject yes. If it was life and death, you'd already know. Or your next of kin would be notified.

Quote:
The argument you seem to be advancing is that the Masterminds, experts, smarter-than-thou folks can have their set of rules while the folks can have theirs. That is the Classic Progressive argument and rationalization. It's ok for Al Gore to use more resources because he is is using those resources to a better end than the other slobs.
How would we know? The 'rules' aren't set yet. Policies haven't been formulated, debated or voted on. You and friends won't even let us sit down to discuss the issues.


Quote:
My point about how the elite think, has just been confirmed.
"Can I buy a Carbon credit or Raise Awareness to offset my Private Jet"
or from one of Lake's favorite books
"some Animals are more equal than others"
Carbon credits are a free-market, private-enterprise way to lower overall carbon emissions. You've already let the free market buy and sell everything else, including American jobs. Or are you not really a capitalist?

(god. It's like I've fallen into hour #2 of the Rush Limburger show. Is there a CF filter for 'cretin'?)
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Old 03-01-2014, 19:46   #337
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Re: Save the Planet!

Actually financial markets are a great example of " technology " solving problems. Too much external debt , hey devalue , renege or just print money. Result your creditors go bust. Since their all in china , hey whom cares

In fiat currency , debt is merely a value of trust, not money.

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Old 03-01-2014, 19:46   #338
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Re: Save the Planet!

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The Irony of this issue is that my environmental and carbon footprint, as someone living on a mooring ball off the grid, is dramatically smaller than those lecturing us that we must do something to save the planet. So in the conventional measurement, I'm a better person for caring more than "you".
If you'd like to compare carbon footprints, I'm up for it. If I win, do I get to be a better person than you??

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Some sad looking photos, for sure but to call the acts of man "un-natural" doesn't that imply that man is not part of nature but outside of it?
As I've written before, my realism (some would say pessimism) is exactly b/c we are part of nature. We are no different than any other critter that has walked this earth. All species evolve to maximize their utilization of the resources available to them. In other words, animals use as much as they can until they hit unsurmountable ecological barriers. These barriers can be other species, which outcompete them, or it can be geographic barriers where they expand out of their ecosystem. OR, they can become so successful that they actually alter and denigrate their own ecosystem. IOW, they use up all available resources, and then die. We are an example of this final outcome, but we are far from alone. Many successful species have done the same. We are just the latest example.

We human are just behaving like so many other species that have come before us. We are behaving completely naturally, and will follow the same trajectory as all other species who have eaten themselves out of house and home. The only way we can alter this fate is if we -- homo sapien -- step outside of Nature, and becomes the most unnatural animal this planet has ever evolved. We can do this by recognizing the folly of ecosystem domination, and by voluntarily and wilfully scaling back our impacts. No other species has ever done this, and personally I don't expect humans can do it either.
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Old 03-01-2014, 19:48   #339
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Carbon credits are a free-market, private-enterprise way to lower overall carbon emissions. You've already let the free market buy and sell everything else, including American jobs. Or are you not really a capitalist?

(god. It's like I've fallen into hour #2 of the Rush Limburger show. Is there a CF filter for 'cretin'?)
Close but not quite.
Selling Carbon credits is like when the Pope in Rome would sell endulgences to the wealty 1%-er to absolve them of their sins. Same thing.

Al Gore and the whole movement are saying we will DIE if we don't reduce CO2, yet we can then sell Offset credits to something that is going to KILL us? WTF. This right here proves that folly of it all. If CO2 was really going to KILL us all, you would never SELL the right to release it now would you.

As for Rush...you actually listen to him? Come on amigo, he as so 2000's.
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Old 03-01-2014, 19:49   #340
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Re: Save the Planet!

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It doesn't work that way in a Life and Death Crisis, which is exactly what Al Gore and his types say we are in.

If the life raft is short on water, one guy doesn't get a bigger water ration because he is telling everyone else to conserve water. To have ANY credibility on the matter, HE is the one that should be conserving the most water, not showering while others die of dehydration.
Ok I've got this.

If Al Gore is running a water-maker while the rest of you pretend you're not short of water, hell yes he can go on saying whatever he likes about conservation.

Quote:
Selling Carbon credits is like when the Pope in Rome would sell endulgences to the wealty 1%-er to absolve them of their sins.
Invalid comparison. Companies trade and sell carbon credits to each other like any other commodity, CDO, bond, or whatever fiscal abstractions they sell to each other nowadays. Why do you hate capitalism?

Quote:
Al Gore and the whole movement are saying we will DIE
Not true. You're such a drama queen.

(ok you're just trollin' me now, yes?)
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Old 03-01-2014, 19:51   #341
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
If you'd like to compare carbon footprints, I'm up for it. If I win, do I get to be a better person than you??



As I've written before, my realism (some would say pessimism) is exactly b/c we are part of nature. We are no different than any other critter that has walked this earth. All species evolve to maximize their utilization of the resources available to them. In other words, animals use as much as they can until they hit unsurmountable ecological barriers. These barriers can be other species, which outcompete them, or it can be geographic barriers where they expand out of their ecosystem. OR, they can become so successful that they actually alter and denigrate their own ecosystem. IOW, they use up all available resources, and then die. We are an example of this final outcome, but we are far from alone. Many successful species have done the same. We are just the latest example.

We human are just behaving like so many other species that have come before us. We are behaving completely naturally, and will follow the same trajectory as all other species who have eaten themselves out of house and home. The only way we can alter this fate is if we -- homo sapien -- step outside of Nature, and becomes the most unnatural animal this planet has ever evolved. We can do this by recognizing the folly of ecosystem domination, and by voluntarily and wilfully scaling back our impacts. No other species has ever done this, and personally I don't expect humans can do it either.
It's not that easy mike, humans are unlike any other animal , I think that's clear. So the damage we have done is worse then any other animal , and the clean up will require effort then other animals cannot comprehend. I don't think you can generalise the human race to the level of a simple animal.

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Old 03-01-2014, 19:54   #342
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Close but not quite.
Selling Carbon credits is like when the Pope in Rome would sell endulgences to the wealty 1%-er to absolve them of their sins. Same thing.

Al Gore and the whole movement are saying we will DIE if we don't reduce CO2, yet we can then sell Offset credits to something that is going to KILL us? WTF. This right here proves that folly of it all. If CO2 was really going to KILL us all, you would never SELL the right to release it now would you.

As for Rush...you actually listen to him? Come on amigo, he as so 2000's.
What carbon credits do is an attempt to get a capitalist industry to regulate itself by trading carbon , no more then it does if it trades electricity. It's not a perfect mechanism , in my view co2 reduction by diktat would be better , but hey we live in a pseudo capitalist society.

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Old 03-01-2014, 19:54   #343
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Re: Save the Planet!

I'm almost willing to take that Carbon Footprint challange Mike, because living off of Solar on a boat mooring beats the pants off any house connected to the grid. But I'm afraid you have something tricky up your sleeve to quash me like a bug.

I like your answer and reasoning about us being just like every other species, but where I see it breaking down is your concept of us breaking out of the normal evolutionaly track. Are you not asking the Sea Otters to stop hunting for clams and start eating tofu?
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Old 03-01-2014, 19:59   #344
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Re: Save the Planet!

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It's not a perfect mechanism , in my view co2 reduction by diktat would be better , but hey we live in a pseudo capitalist society.

Dave
But it's too little too late, the MMGW Scientists have already told us that we are doomed, so the only logical and honest approach would be to end Carbon emissions today if the experts really believed their relig...ah....I mean science data. Letting someone BUY the right to kill us, that is what you are saying. See NOx, SOx and other emission creidts worked because they were never going to destroy the world, just make it dirty, so they made sense. But you have to listen to what the MMGW experts are telling us, that we will DIE if we don't cut carbon emmissions down to NADA. So are they telling us a lie or just trying to get rich off carbon credits, get research grants, and use it as a way get get money?
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Old 03-01-2014, 20:02   #345
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Re: Save the Planet!

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(ok you're just trollin' me now, yes?)
of course I am...and I owe you a Beer mi Amigo
Here's what I'm drinking now in your honor
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