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Old 02-01-2014, 21:25   #301
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Re: Save the Planet!

"Looks like Obama's setting the ball rolling.."

Thanks to the NDAA and EO 13603, there are now distinct ways to conduct mass roundups of citizens and place them in detention camps."

Perfect timing this is exactly the the point made in my previous post. It's disingenuous to talk about contributing to a discussion about saving the planet, and then trot out this kind of junk misinformation. It's what makes "serious people" sound so smart.

On 16 March 2012, President Barack Obama issued an executive order (EO) 13603 covering National Defense Resources Preparedness, prompting Congresswoman Kay Granger to pen the missive quoted above. Despite claims that the executive order provided the President with unprecedented new powers such as declaring martial law, seizing private property, implementing the rationing of food, gasoline, and drugs, restarting peacetime conscription, and nationalizing America industry, merely by declaring a national emergency, the National Defense Resources Preparedness EO issued by President Obama was simply a minor updating of a similar order issued by President Bill Clinton in 1994 (which itself had decades-old predecessors) and amended several times since.
Read more at snopes.com: Executive Order 13603 -- National Defense Resources Preparedness
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Old 02-01-2014, 21:27   #302
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Save the Planet!

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And yet it always comes back to this doesn't it.

That a Free People are not smart enough to have a say in the Change. It must come from the masterminds, the special smart people, the "serious people", the same ones that were behind the eugenics! See how Eugenics and this whole topic of Human control comes perfectly into play. I brought the point up to illustrate just how dangerous these Ivory Tower Elite types can be when given control over the lives people.

Some put their faith for the future in the "serious people", while others, including myself, put it where the United States founding documents tell us power resides, the people. The Average Joe. That my friends is what pisses off and Irritates the smarter than us masterminds. That their power is put in check by plumbers, garbage men and even a lowley cruiser Bozo at that pesky voting booth.
Sadly bits of paper never protected any society from ruin or oppression. That's the great thing about the American dream , Americans swallowed that nonsense.

What keeps you free is a cynical population not a patriotic one. Look at the French , the Gov tries to pull A fast one , the whole society sitting on the roads. Look at what's done to your civil freedoms in the name of anti - terror. Swathes of freedoms removed and hardly a peep

You said it yourself , a free people , but unfortunately they are not in the US , ( mind you I'm not sure where they are actually )

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Old 02-01-2014, 21:40   #303
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Re: Save the Planet!

You are exactly right Dave, unfortunately, some free people would seem to chose security over liberty, despite warnings. The solution was also put down in black and white:

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence,"
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Old 02-01-2014, 21:45   #304
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Re: Save the Planet!

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..... Then those smartypants make comments about mutant neanderthals etc,. Oh yea, that three breasted women is mutant Mary from Total Recall,, no? Anyway if we can resist sniping we can perhaps come to some socialistic consensus about what needs to be done.
Gee a little hurt and disappointed that you might think my reference so flippant and Hollywood...

Concept is explained in the book “The Flounder” by Gunter Gras

Tough disturbing book about the battle between the sexes thru the ages

Talking Fish (flounder) explains that in the beginning, the world was content because it was ruled by women

The reason being that women originaly possessed 3 suckling breasts to feed and satisfy mankind’s cravings.
One for the Child, One for the Adult Male and one to take care of the aging fathers.
Being satisfied and satiated, there was no need for war or competition and it was a happy time.
However, once women lost that middle breast, the males became disenchanted with life, took control and competition began for the depleting resources, thus resulting in War.

I thought it quite appropriate

The Flounder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Flounder by Günter Grass


Jennifer Richardson rated it 5 of 5 stars
This book is a fantastic, convoluted, dark and intensely strange 500 page fairy tale. The story perpetually switches between time periods, from early neolithic to present, and between the female protagonists of each time- but once you get the hang of all of the women and the men (who are in fact one man conscious of all of his historical reincarnations), it is surprisingly easy to read and stay in the flow of the current narrators past and present ramblings and references. Essentially this history of patriarchy unfolds in the absurd context of a feminist Women's Tribunal putting the Flounder on trial, through which we learn all of the ways that this god-fish instructed and aided the male cause to pursue wars and rape and oppression of women, etc etc. We also get a very detailed history of food and its effect on women and society, as all of his female protagonists are cooks.

I think it would be bold to directly recommend this to friends because it is so very very long and convoluted (and slightly perverse), but it is definitely one of my new favorite books so if you're up for something strange and compelling it is absolutely worth getting through
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Old 02-01-2014, 21:49   #305
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Re: Save the Planet!

Don't be disappointed. You've given me a reading assignment. Makes me think of Dan Quinn' Ishmael. Thanks
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Old 02-01-2014, 21:59   #306
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Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
You are exactly right Dave, unfortunately, some free people would seem to chose security over liberty, despite warnings. The solution was also put down in black and white:

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence,"
It's is a fine and noble document , however it is but a piece of paper. Throughout history , the people have sought to abolish governments , despite bits of paper claiming otherwise , governments have rairly gone peacefully. Today unfortunately , it needs heavy arms , air to air missiles and a will to destroy your own society in the process. In the past , lopping off the monarchs head seemed to do the trick.

Dave
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Old 02-01-2014, 22:30   #307
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Today unfortunately , it needs heavy arms , air to air missiles and a will to destroy your own society in the process. In the past , lopping off the monarchs head seemed to do the trick.
Ah....but we have a Revolution every 2yrs and 4yrs at the Balllot Box.
No guns....no bullets....no blood and the entire face and direction of Government changes.

Of course I hope you all know that anyone who posted and perhaps even read these posts have now been taged by the NSA as threats and will most likely find themselves geting an Anal Cavity Search by the TSA the next time you fly!
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Old 02-01-2014, 22:38   #308
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Re: Save the Planet!

Politics in America is pretty close to a religion and from an outsiders view from up north we don't see much difference between your political parties when they actually get into office.
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Old 02-01-2014, 22:55   #309
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Ah....but we have a Revolution every 2yrs and 4yrs at the Balllot Box.
No guns....no bullets....no blood and the entire face and direction of Government changes.

Of course I hope you all know that anyone who posted and perhaps even read these posts have now been taged by the NSA as threats and will most likely find themselves geting an Anal Cavity Search by the TSA the next time you fly!
Not many posters will get tagged lately then, it's only a handful of you.

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Old 03-01-2014, 05:37   #310
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Ah....but we have a Revolution every 2yrs and 4yrs at the Balllot Box.
No guns....no bullets....no blood and the entire face and direction of Government changes.

Of course I hope you all know that anyone who posted and perhaps even read these posts have now been taged by the NSA as threats and will most likely find themselves geting an Anal Cavity Search by the TSA the next time you fly!
No that process only changes the faces in government not the system of government , look around the world for examples of that , very few done that way.

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Old 03-01-2014, 05:43   #311
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Re: Save the Planet!

Funny how a few numbers killed the population discussion.

Moved to a less disturbing topic.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:18   #312
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Mike,
I'm a life long Democrat, voted for Carter twice, lefty loonie tree hugger. I wish to God over population was not our problem, but it is. Every one on Earth wants the fuel rich life style we have so craftily sold them. So if you killed off all the high consuming Westerners, they would be replaced by high consuming somthing elsers.

Also, the 4 billion or whatever is a very high estimate of our sustainable population. I fooled around with these numbers a while ago, did some internet searches,read a bit, did some of my own thinking and I come up with 1 billion, on a good day. In fact, there is not much out there to support 4 billion.

No sense getting too riled up about these numbers, but I did want to point out that, despite our apparent disagreement, you and I are very much I the same political camp. I don't much like where my research has led me, but here is where I am.

Sorry.
Hi Hpeer, I don't think we're on opposite ends of this discussion at all. I agree with your assessment; 1 billion is probably closer to the sustainable carrying capacity of this planet if we want to live anywhere near the levels of affluence that you and I currently enjoy. I've never said population is not a problem for our biosphere. It is ... a huge problem. What I continue to say is that it is, at best, only 1/2 the problem. The bigger part of the problem is our consumption levels here in the rich parts of the world.

My simple point is that we can and should do something about our contributions to the problem, instead of pointing fingers "over there" and saying they need to get their population under control first. All the while we keep burning and and consuming way beyond what the planet can sustain, or what would be considered fair by any standard of equity.

You're right, of course, about the growing tsunami of affluence in the developing world. If the populations of China and India follow our development path, there is no doubt humanity's ecosystems on this planet are toast (and many other species as well). Which is all the more reason that we, who have had the benefits of cheap energy, cheap resources, and the global power structures all built to support us, need to step up and do our part FIRST. We need to stop being part of the problem. We need to show that there is a different way. We need to suck it up and accept our responsibilities.

But as I keep saying, we're not going to do this b/c it would require a significant reduction in our physical standards of living. There's no two ways around this; we all need to use less.
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:08   #313
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Re: Save the Planet!

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And yet it always comes back to this doesn't it.

That a Free People are not smart enough to have a say in the Change. It must come from the masterminds, the special smart people, the "serious people", the same ones that were behind the eugenics! See how Eugenics and this whole topic of Human control comes perfectly into play. I brought the point up to illustrate just how dangerous these Ivory Tower Elite types can be when given too much control over the lives of people.

Some put their faith for the future in the "serious people", while others, including myself, put it where the United States founding documents tell us power resides, the people. The Average Joe. That my friends is what pisses off and Irritates the smarter than us masterminds. That their power is put in check by plumbers, garbage men and even a lowley cruiser Bozo at that pesky voting booth.
Quote:
That a Free People are not smart enough to have a say in the Change.
Who has denied the Free People a say? Judging from you, we can't even get them to the table.

You keep spouting this empty dogma, with no consideration for the realities of implementation. Who researches the issue and formulates the policies, who makes the proposals that are eventually voted upon? Why are you intent on belittling, demonizing, ignoring those seeking solutions?

And "masterminds" ...geez!



... is that the name you gave to the imagined terrors under your childhood bed? What is this fear of yours regarding knowledge and those who seek it?

When you're ill, do you go to a doctor, or just grab an Average Joe to diagnose you?

Where do ideas come from, Rich? Why do some people make it their life's work to study something? How did we actually get from 1914 to 2014? "Masterminds" put a man on the moon. An Average Joe didn't give you the Internet, the Ivory Tower did. Most average Joes are just along for the ride, and a few of them express an opinion on exactly TWO nearly identical options every 4 years or so. That's your Average Joe.

In truth, you're the one being anti-democratic, by trying to block forward motion or smothering it in the crib.

(sorry for picking on you. We are so close to agreement, except you can't or won't participate in an eyes-open discussion of the issues. As I said, yours is a blind faith. Which means you refuse to be part of the solution, and that's frustrating, because it's apparently a common stance, and encouraged by some big money. Basically, you've capitulated to the selfish masterminds instead of the concerned masterminds)
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:14   #314
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Funny how a few numbers killed the population discussion.

Moved to a less disturbing topic.
This is a somewhat fact-free thread, like most non-sailing CF rambles, so the case for or against the population numbers hasn't been successfully made here. As they say, politics is the art of the possible. Death-camps, sterilization, zero population growth
zpg
... these aren't (and shouldn't be) on the table.

So, what's possible now?
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:20   #315
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This is a somewhat fact-free thread, like most non-sailing CF rambles, so the case for or against the population numbers hasn't been successfully made here. As they say, politics is the art of the possible. Death-camps, sterilization, zero population growth
zpg
... these aren't (and shouldn't be) on the table.

So, what's possible now?
Why not.. quite a few countries have used them with varying degrees of success.. then the bludi liberals came along...
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