Save the Planet!

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Krogensailor

And here comes the ideological dilemma. We can't solve the problem because I believe the world is flat,

Why is it that Facts seems to Irritate so many people these days?

Obamacare Provides Free Controceptives and Abortions for Gals that can't afford it. That is just a FACT and not anything Ideological, what's with the knee jerk reaction?

Isn't that a Great thing to help control population?
Isn't this a "good thing" that we should all be happy about to Save the Planet?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Krogensailor

.End social security, unemployment benifits, welfare, pensions, disability payments, and any other form of regular stipend. combine all of that capital into a fund that provides everyone a earned income credit that equals the median income of the average American. Create a basement floor that stops people from failing into desperate need. Let them buy thier own healthcare.

With you up to the healthcare thing...

Most civilized countries, including the US are roughly at the same point, when it comes to society, in terms of public welfare - eg care for the poor and needy, etc. The difference comes in the implementation: some countries have this support baked into their political principles and public welfare becomes a normal part of government responsibility (eg Scandinavian countries), whereas the US has a hodgepodge of different overlapping agencies, charities, ngo's, because the American political psyche cannot accept social welfare as a natural goal of government. Ergo, it ends up costing alot more to provide that support in the US.

I disagree with you on healthcare, because a single-payer system is far more efficient, and because we really need effective universal healthcare to be a given, not a discretionary extra. An entirely private healthcare system is possible, as long as there are close controls on the market (eg France)

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Why is it that Facts seems to Irritate so many people these days?

Obamacare Provides Free Controceptives and Abortions for Gals that can't afford it. That is just a FACT and not anything Ideological, what's with the knee jerk reaction?

Isn't that a Great thing to help control population?
Isn't this a "good thing" that we should all be happy about to Save the Planet?

Not when their God says it's wrong.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I have only one requirement, one that mirrors Reagan's promise of a rising tide that floats all boats: economic activity must be a net positive for society (the country/region/whatever). No-one should get rich on making others poorer.

So then the Typewriter industry shouldn't go out of Business from the Advent of Computers?

The Buggywhip manufacturers should go out of Business from the Advent of Cars?

The Blackberry should be pushed out of it's market share from the Iphone?

Who decides on your definition of a "net positive for society"?

The mastermind planners that can't build a website?

Trading one problem based on Freedom for more problems based on control....no thanks.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Not when their God says it's wrong.

God has an opinion of Obamacare Now that's a new one.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

When you have control to set the rules of the game Lake...then you can make people follow the rules of the game. Sorry, but by you going after me for not following "The Rules of the Game", you just showed the sillyness of such a Game! We all have FREEDOM and the only way the Masterminds can make us follow their Rules is to take Freedom Away.

Now please, show me where I am being "negative". You seem to attack what I post because it is easier to attack and name call than debate an idea you don't find comfortable. It's the classic approach of the tolerant left: attach, belittle and attempt marginalize those who you don't agree with. Sorry...Freedom means I can call craziness out when I see it.

The world will be just fine without the central planner masterminds...but to the smarter-that-us-smartypants they think they can manage the world better and more efficienctly because they are smarter. Too bad some pigs are more equal than others.

It was simply an observation, you are of course free to spew whatever you want (and you have) ... so who's after your freedom?

You have however reinforced my point that no matter what the issue, some people can be relied upon to simply obstruct, avoid and whip out their favourite soapbox again and again. So, thanks for that.

As usual you try to shoehorn me into the uniform of your favourite imaginary enemies:
" We all have FREEDOM and the only way the Masterminds can make us follow their Rules is to take Freedom Away."
"It's the classic approach of the tolerant left: attach, belittle and attempt marginalize those who you don't agree with."
"the central planner masterminds...but to the smarter-that-us-smartypants they think they can manage the world better and more efficienctly because they are smarter. Too bad some pigs are more equal than others"

Hey - bonus points for slipping in that "Animal Farm" reference again. What else have you read?

This would be more entertaining if you'd respond to what I write, not what you imagine or wish I wrote.

You've said elsewhere that you have faith that our problems will get sorted. Enlighten us - how? How do you see the next century playing out?

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

God has an opinion of Obamacare Now that's a new one.

He has an opinion about everything for some. Just ask the DD guy.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

So then the Typewriter industry shouldn't go out of Business from the Advent of Computers?

The Buggywhip manufacturers should go out of Business from the Advent of Cars?

The Blackberry should be pushed out of it's market share from the Iphone?

Who decides on your definition of a "net positive for society"?

The mastermind planners that can't build a website?

Trading one problem based on Freedom for more problems based on control....no thanks.

[facepalm] mastermind planners didn't build the website, contractors did. (Canadian ones I'm sorry to say)

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble following along.

Let's cut to the chase:
- is there such a thing as a country, and does a country have the right to declare and uphold what they have democratically agreed to be right and proper?
- is it acceptable that some unrestrained economic activity weakens or destabilizes the country that permits, enables and supports that activity?
- do you recognise the right of your country to act upon the wishes of a majority, even if you are not in that majority?
- do you not recognise that your country stands behind your freedom, that part of freedom is responsibility, and some of that responsibility is exercised as collective action? (ooooo soshulizm)

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

This would be more entertaining if you'd respond to what I write, not what you imagine or wish I wrote.

You've said elsewhere that you have faith that our problems will get sorted. Enlighten us - how? How do you see the next century playing out?

That's easy.
Just as no one could properly predict 100yrs ago how the last Centruy has turned out, it is utter unchecked arrogance to think we can today. And in this answer you also have the answer to your first complaint about people posting to the questions you wrote. Perhaps the questions you wrote are not the real issue?

A thirsty man in a life raft is not asking for a glass of water, but for Rescue..

[Doodles]

I think there are two here who could use a timeout. Why don't you two take your spat outside?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Just as no one could properly predict 100yrs ago how the last Centruy has turned out, it is utter unchecked arrogance to think we can today.

It certainly has been an amazing, unpredictable 100 years. No question. Heck just the last 50 has been amazing enough.

Here's the difference, though. 100 years ago, there was so much sheer abundance, that the future was limitless for all practical purposes. Now... we can see the limits approaching. We can and have documented the many ways in which the planet's abundance is being used up. We can now see the negative effects that some of our activities are having. We can much more accurately extrapolate that information to see clearly that such activity cannot continue indefinitely. Given all this new data... we have the capability to act on that data. Shouldn't we?

It is willful ignorance to not act on the evidence before us. Yours is a blind faith.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Doodles

I think there are two here who could use a timeout. Why don't you two take your spat outside?

Help, help! I'm being repressed!

Monty Python And The Holy Grail - Help Help I'm Being Repressed - YouTube

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

It certainly has been an amazing, unpredictable 100 years. No question. Heck just the last 50 has been amazing enough.Here's the difference, though. 100 years ago, there was so much sheer abundance, that the future was limitless for all practical purposes.

I see a limitless future for all practical purposes today, now, ahora.
Why is it that people think the big advances in technology have always been in the past? History is a clear teacher on this subject and to think that things will not continually get better is to ignore history.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

We can and have documented the many ways in which the planet's abundance is being used up.

Oh, scare tactics have indeed told us that we are running out of everything, all as a means to tell us to give more power to the Government and central planners. Remember Peak Oil...ha ha ha ...ya right now the USA has enough for decades due to a new technology that NO ONE predicted just 10 years ago! It's a Crying Wolf game to say the world is running out of recouces! Why...simple. We invent, create, NEW recources. Always have...always will.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

It is willful ignorance to not act on the evidence before us. Yours is a blind faith.

Willful ignorance? Or being a student of History and understand that every Doomsday Predictor from the beginning of time has been WRONG. I'm just not a KoolAid drinker or one that buys into the conventional thinking, which is almost always proven to be wrong.

What I find funny is that here I am, saying don't panic and that it will be ok and I'm the crazy guy? When the "smart people" start telling us we are doomed, I see more about them and their world view in those comments than I do about reality. Arrogance....the Arrogance that WE can do what no other civilization has been able to do for the long term...Control It's Population according to the Masterminds in Government, the Chruch, or Kings Court.

[Krogensailor]

That's what I shout at dirt people as I sail by, "Bloody peasants"

[captain58sailin]

My point is, no matter how much you believe you are in control of your own life, there are many influences on the decisions you make, that you may not even be aware of. How did we get from "Save the Planet!" to "I will rule you!" Perhaps the internet will save us all.