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Old 02-01-2014, 04:42   #211
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Re: Save the Planet!

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The planet is not in trouble. It is a closed loop system that will adjust and readjust to find it's equilibrium
There is no evidence to show the planet is a closed loop system, In fact there is every evidence to show it is a open loop system.

in my view population growth is not the issue, food production , even water availability is not an issue. Tehcnology and mechanised farming has easily demonstrated that we can fed multiple billions.

What is unsustainable is that a relatively small group of the population, "need" and consume a majority of resources ( and produce the resultant pollution) , to maintain a way of life that in itself promotes the increasing consumption of such resources. Thats process is clearly unsustainable and will have to regulated if it is not to do terminal irreversible damage.

IN ,my case, using my benign dictatorship

introduce radical , harsh anti pollution laws.
support zero or very low polluting businesses
prevent( sorry ban) any further destruction of natural habitat

remove all tariif barriers and entry to market restrictions on food and related products , remove all agricultural supports to farmers.


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Old 02-01-2014, 04:54   #212
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
What boatman 61 said, + no more plastic packaging on durable goods, recycle the plastic already in existence, do not create any new.
How?? You been to any developing countries lately?
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:01   #213
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Re: Save the Planet!

Yes, I work in Nigeria. The how, is attach a value to the plastic that surrounds the goods that are sold, so if there is a financial gain, the people have an incentive to return the plastic.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:04   #214
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by Krogensailor View Post
We could, maybe, reset by seeking a more organic and global perspective. Seek to correct our disoriented condition. Lose money, religion, the fallacy of knowing better, the simple minded notion that we are somehow separated from each other, and everything else. Lose our fragmented , reductionist, schizoid, cosmically divorced mindset, for a mindset that gets all of the connections and the systems of connections. We could do it!!!! Not really, I'm just f--king with you. There's no hope whatsoever.
Exactly. The problem is not overpopulation. It is humanity as a whole. Mankind is sick, the sickness is called "madness" and it is incurable - besides, carriers do not wish to be cured and don't even consider themselves sick... There is no hope for mankind, it will self-destruct pretty soon (within next 30-50 years imo). I am with preppers
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:07   #215
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
Yes, I work in Nigeria. The how, is attach a value to the plastic that surrounds the goods that are sold, so if there is a financial gain, the people have an incentive to return the plastic.
You are assuming 200+ countries are going to agree to do this AND to enforce it? Ain't gonna happen. Maybe some of the developed countries but not in the developing world and that's what 4-5 billion people. Ideas are wonderful, implementation is another animal entirely.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:16   #216
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Re: Save the Planet!

You could provide tax incentives for the producers of the plastic products so that they have a financial interest in buying back the plastic they produce, it could be scheduled on the amount of plastic taken back in. If you put a couple of Naira bounty on the plastic water bottles, I am sure there would be plenty of takers. The Japanese have developed machines for returning certain types of plastic back into oil. It could be implemented, all needs be done is provide the proper incentive. I have no illusions about the complexity of implementing this program, but the alternative is throw up your hands and drown in the pile. If there is a will there is a way. Also, if I am dictator of the world, there is only one country, with different regions.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:24   #217
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Re: Save the Planet!

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...Also, if I am dictator of the world, there is only one country, with different regions.
Now, that's more like a solution with implementation.

I was thinking a good start would be to wave my magic wand and paraphrasing Rodney King .. have everyone just get along.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:24   #218
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Please everyone, include a "HOW" not just a "what" in your solutions. For example, "how" would you get the population down to "x". Ideas are worthless without a plan of implementation, i.e. .. how you gonna do it?
Agreed Doodles… that is the Challenge

The Global Population Control Formula for HOW to bring the numbers down at first to a Zero growth rate requires expert regional analysis of growth pyramids for male/females further broken down by ages, density and ethnicity.

Then with the support of ethnic leaders to reeducate those masses suffering the worst youth bulge we would implement an agreed birth control standard and relocation program to at first minimize the usual genocides existing today that are caused by too many children.

Once stabilized at Zero growth rate, solutions and incentives to create extended loving families of individual children would help break down all cultural/religious barriers of racial profiling while shifting into a negative growth rate. (If the goal is less than 7 billion)

Then as we slowly roll back the population numbers we implement a healthier sustainable lifestyle of equal education to our limited child base who should become better citizens and caretakers of the planet.

I am suggesting that it will require a dictatorial upheaval of all we presently hold dear to achieve that noble indoctrination of the youth, while we the more aged, eventually die and get out of the way.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:24   #219
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Re: Save the Planet!

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There is no hope for mankind, it will self-destruct pretty soon (within next 30-50 years imo). I am with preppers
if there is "no hope for mankind" , then whats the point of "preppers"!!!

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Old 02-01-2014, 05:35   #220
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
if there is "no hope for mankind" , then whats the point of "preppers"!!!

Dave
As stated, humanity is mad, there is no point in arguing with a madman. If you ask "what is the point of preppers", then you are arguing with a madman, which is insane.

In my delusional world, I am a prepper of sorts. It does not make a lot of sense, from a strictly logical view suicide is the only course. But that makes no sense for you then cede all control. So the only option is to embrace life and hope for a miracle. But you have to be alive for a miracle to help. Jay Fitzgerald said it all much better in SEASTEADING.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:43   #221
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
There is no evidence to show the planet is a closed loop system, In fact there is every evidence to show it is a open loop system.

in my view population growth is not the issue, food production , even water availability is not an issue. Tehcnology and mechanised farming has easily demonstrated that we can fed multiple billions.

What is unsustainable is that a relatively small group of the population, "need" and consume a majority of resources ( and produce the resultant pollution) , to maintain a way of life that in itself promotes the increasing consumption of such resources. Thats process is clearly unsustainable and will have to regulated if it is not to do terminal irreversible damage.

IN ,my case, using my benign dictatorship

introduce radical , harsh anti pollution laws.
support zero or very low polluting businesses
prevent( sorry ban) any further destruction of natural habitat

remove all tariif barriers and entry to market restrictions on food and related products , remove all agricultural supports to farmers.


Dave
Dave, as our benevolent dictator, do you not believe that the ever increasing population is directly related to unhealthy and unnatural food procurement practices?
That your solutions while moving in the right direction, does not fully address the causality of the problems in a way to reverse the global imbalance of resources and the pillaging of the remaining natural habitats?
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:45   #222
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
if there is "no hope for mankind" , then whats the point of "preppers"!!!
The point is simple. To avoid physical eradication when the **** hits the fan, and to extend OWN existence in a relatively safe environment.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:51   #223
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Re: Save the Planet!

My own meager research on the subject makes me think 1 billion is the sustainable max, at best. I know the Global Footprint Network puts at 1.5, which would seem to argue for something like 4 or 5 billion. But, two points, our Western World population, maybe 1.5 billion, are consuming the vast majority of the resources, and the Global Footprint Network assumes a resource rich world with vibrant fish schools and full water aquifers, not the bombed out shell we have.

None-the-less, I will stipulate to 3 billion, that's a good enough start.

Here is how I think we will get there. Multi step plan.
Drought will stress food production
Hunger,starvation, will destabilize global markets
Global depression will insure
Financial markets will eventually collapse as we move from growth to contraction
Desperate states, organizations, will press military advantage, claiming discrimination
The unsettled world will reduce trade, making starvation worse in impoverished countries
In US LA, Sa Diego, Reno et al will have to be relocated to areas with potable water
Mexico and Central America will displace much of its population northward
Under increased agricultural stress we will virtually stop exporting food
Some areas will become vast refuge camps, awaiting disease, and winter
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:52   #224
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Re: Save the Planet!

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
..... So the only option is to embrace life and hope for a miracle. But you have to be alive for a miracle to help. Jay Fitzgerald said it all much better in SEASTEADING.
Sorry... no Miracles allowed in this Challenge...

Suicide is also an option that Lemmings like or the occasional dentist, but it is a tough sell to the masses

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Old 02-01-2014, 05:57   #225
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Re: Save the Planet!

And yes, I have been seriously researching remote private islands market.
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