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Old 29-11-2013, 17:45   #16
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Re: Protocols/procedures for running aground hard...boat lost

It depends on what country the accident occurred in, but I wouldn't be shocked to find out that you can't full compensation for your loss. The IMO 2002 Ships Liability and Compensation treaty caps the value of cabin luggage at 2,250SDR per passenger (the conversion is about 1SDR to $1.50 USD). However the company or it's insurance policy may compensate in excess of this amount.

Generally large companies are more likely to pay, simply because the bad press is worse than the full value of the claim.


I would also point out that this is outside my area of legal expertise.
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Old 19-12-2013, 17:09   #17
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Re: Protocols/procedures for running aground hard...boat lost

If I were to add up the replacement cost of my dive gear.
it would come to 3 or 4 K. no problem. add in the other bits and pieces of gear such as cameras and computer 6 is quite within the realm of possibility.
I doubt if everything was done just right.
The main thing to get right is getting everyone of alive and unhurt.
It would appear this was achieved.
consider yourself lucky. it could have been much worse.
hope you had travel insurance. if you did it should cover your losses.

Waste of time and money trying to get compensation from a little operator in a tin pot little tropical out post.
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Old 26-12-2013, 07:22   #18
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Re: Protocols/procedures for running aground hard...boat lost

The "Authorities" are only responsible for human lives. The responsibility for cleaning up the mess lies with the boat owner and their insurance company. The insurance company will immediately hire a salvage operator, who will first ensure the boat does not cause any other damage - physical or environmental to anything else. They will normally pump fuel and oil from the boat. At that point, it is determined if there is any value in the boat. I guarantee you that they stripped anything of value that they could get off of the boat prior to scuttling the boat. BUT, that all becomes the property of the salvage company until they negotiate with the boat owner or the insurance company to pay the salvage fees.

Remember, once the salvage company gets involved, they have full claim to the vessel and all the contents until they are compensated for the salvage, and they charge dearly.

What has happened is not uncommon. It sounds to me that this was not in the U.S., your claim is being paid, and the only thing you are out is the hassle of getting a passport replaced overseas. It sounds up and up and they are doing the best to accommodate you and accidents happen.
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Old 26-12-2013, 09:50   #19
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Re: Protocols/procedures for running aground hard...boat lost

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Regarding the insurance claim, if the root cause was wear, tear or corrosion (including poor maintenance, aging parts) many policies will not cover the loss.

Sinking the vessel may have obscured the cause.

It is also possible that the policy did not cover proper wreck removal, which can be quite expensive, so they decided to "get rid of it cheaply".

The "root" cause does not matter in any policy. Many policies will have a direct exclusion, but all will be further based upon the result, not the root.

The reason for this is that an insurance company does not want to compensate someone for 100K on a boat that has been sitting on a mooring for 10 years until it finally sinks. The sinking and lack of maintenance made the loss immanent.

If your rudder breaks and you have to be towed in, the insurance company is not responsible for the loss incurred because of the failure. It is purely a mechanical failure.

If your rudder breaks and you end up on the rocks or sinking, then you have a covered event. Where it gets grey is whether you were negligent in maintaining the vessel. If you got a survey prior to buying the boat and fixed anything found in the survey, and you have receipts to show you are actively maintaining the vessel, you will always win.

It is easier for people to think in terms of cars as a lot of the same adjustments are used. Your tire falls off and you skid to a stop, you are not covered. Your tire comes off and you end up in a tree, you are covered.

Liability is ALWAYS covered. Your mast comes down because you did not replace a stay that you knew was bad and hits a person on your boat and does damage to the boat next to you. The liability of the mechanical failure to others is always covered.

Environmental. Most policies written anywhere in the past few years, especially commercial, include environmental cleanup.

Remember, those excisions are not meant for most people reading this as they are active boaters spending money on their boats. They are meant for the guy in the slip next to you who has not been out there in 5 years to check on his boat and it ends up sinking as a result.

Insurance policies are also not meant to fix things that normally break. The rudder stock separating is a equipment failure. The rudder stock breaking and the boat ending up on the rocks is the result of the mechanical failure, but a covered loss.

Wreck removal is part of the liability portion of a policy. Most boaters in the US have a minimum of 300K as required by marinas. Regardless of how you maintain your boat or the root cause of the loss, that 300K is always tapped into for salvage or "wreck removal" as you stated. This is why salvage is lucrative as the insurance company will at least pay to salvage and dispose of the boat - effectively ending their liability.

A lot of times, the insurance company will negotiate to the salvers and their insured, then pass title (even though it is effectively passed once a salvage company has made claim to it). And the salvage company will have full possession and ownership instead of rights to and allowed to dispose of it any way they choose. In the auto world, this is when the next title is granted as salvage or rebuilt title. The insurance company paid it out as a total loss, but someone choose to repair it.

So, be careful with the term "root cause" as the results have more bearing than the root cause, itself.
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Old 26-12-2013, 10:06   #20
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Re: Protocols/procedures for running aground hard...boat lost

Also, if you paid for the charter with a credit card, look in the fine print for them. Many offer hidden incentives like travel insurance, increased auto limits, reimbursement for extended stays based on unforeseen accidents or incidents (lost passport). As far as all your equipment, it may cost you 6K to go buy brand new equipment, but keep in mind that you are being indemnified for direct replacement of what you lost, not getting new stuff. Meaning a 10 year old BC is really worth what you can find a 10 year old BC for on the used market.

Another thing to check is your homeowners policy. A lot of people don't know this, but you can get some reimbursement for non-scheduled items. If you schedule items on your homeowners policy, they are covered at agreed or actual cash value wherever you go.

It does not hurt to check.
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Old 26-12-2013, 10:23   #21
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Originally Posted by Deep6 View Post
Cheechako,
I apologize I guess I am a little unfocused. I guess I short I am curious on 2 fronts., what is the proper procedure god forbid this type of thing should happen to anyone. Perhaps this thread can be in the back of everyone's mind should the worst happen. Secondly do proceedings such as these normally happen so quickly? I would have expected as I mentioned for the boat to be the site of a horde of insurance inspectors taking pictures and such. Although it was a remote outcropping. I was expecting her to stay where she was for 2 weeks or so..but perhaps a debris field is the greater of 2 evils. The salvage company apparently didn't address pumping the engines clean.
A week is a long time when things can get worse. The insurance company is also interested in not letting it get worse. If weather and tide managed to shift the wreck to a worse place or to sink completely right in the area the costs would go up. Insurance companies are most interested in protecting their money. Dragging things out once they've determined recovery impractical to determine in greater detail facts which don't change the problem at hand just adds to the expenses and adds risk of way bigger ones.
Salvaged items might be interesting to the salvage crew personally but to a company or the insurance company, not really.
They'll write off boats full of good stuff and move on as quickly as possible.
Even total write offs for massive corrosion and groundings are usually decided after a visit of a half hour to an hour by the adjuster here once they are hauled out. Not to say they always pay, they'll often decide to deny in that same time frame.
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Old 26-12-2013, 10:34   #22
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Re: Protocols/procedures for running aground hard...boat lost

Most marine insurance has a provision for an evaluation by a marine surveyor. I would imagine the salvage company has one on staff. If they write it off as a total constructive loss, then the insurance usually cuts the check right away. Since we didn't witness the salvage, can't know if they removed the petrochemicals or not, I would assume that they did. In the aftermath of Katrina, some marine surveyors were processing 7 to 10 boats a day. I am really glad everyone got off safe and sound. No you should not return to the interior of the vessel once you are above decks in a situation like that, it is a good way to get dead, so good choice there. Sounds like you were taken care of in a fair fashion.
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Old 26-12-2013, 10:54   #23
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Re: Protocols/procedures for running aground hard...boat lost

$700 shaving kit ??
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Old 26-12-2013, 11:21   #24
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Re: Protocols/procedures for running aground hard...boat lost

I have a couple of straight razors that go for a couple hundred a piece, funny thing for a guy with a beard to have. I couldn't afford the boar's hair shaving brush or crystal shaving mug, so I have to go unshaven. A decent strop goes for $50 bucks.
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