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Old 31-08-2016, 11:43   #181
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming View Post
gosh (sure add gee golly), is it really worth quibbling about? I grew up with the idea that polite company avoids certain subbects. Im adding cruising style to the list. I find the atmosphere a bit baffling.
Why? What do you REALLY mean by that? Explain. Explain. Why are you saying this when you know this isn't right?

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Old 31-08-2016, 11:50   #182
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming View Post
gosh (sure add gee golly), is it really worth quibbling about? I grew up with the idea that polite company avoids certain subbects. Im adding cruising style to the list. I find the atmosphere a bit baffling.
It's just like I wrote back in post #9, the "go now, go now in poverty" CF cabal will eventually take over the thread. It's not that difficult to pedict.

Sea Dreaming,

When you eventually get out cruising, you're going to find the group that's actually out doing it (most of them actually own a boat), to be very nice down to earth individuals with surprisingly common political, social beliefs and viewpoints. These internet subjects never come up except when we laugh about the ridiculous exchanges on CF. Whatever it is about the way I present myself on CF, I run into fellow cruisers at nearly every anchorage who contact us privately, we sit down to dinner and or drinks and have a few laughs and make lasting friendships.

Don't go by what you read online.... It's not real. Some of the respondents are just bitter basement dwellers, not doers. And I'm not referring in any way to Mike... He's a fellow Canadian doer with a different point of view who seeks to re-educate me.

And that ain't going to happen.
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Old 31-08-2016, 12:20   #183
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

Thank you for your reassuring comments. I figured I had found the secret to how hurricanes spawn!
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Old 31-08-2016, 14:30   #184
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
And let me add to this, that I've never met a man or woman who complained of having too many conveniences while out cruising. Powerboat or sailboat.

I've yet to hear:

"Oh if only I didn't have that generator...."

"Oh my God that watermaker is such a pain..."

"Oh how I hate my washing machine, if only I could go back to hauling my dirty clothes all over town... that would be heaven."
Hmm..

My observation is that folks who have such devices become dependent upon them. And we have observed, both in the flesh and vicariously here on CF, folks bemoaning the fact that "the xxx is broken and parts are not locally available and there is no technician here to fix it anyway, so we are STUCK in this hell hole..."

So, yeah, Ken, there are folks complaining about their conveniences... lots of them.

As you keep repeating, I don't care what other folks need to go cruising, but I do object to arguments such as yours above. The realistic view is that conveniences sometimes become a burden that seriously interfere with one's cruising rather than enhancing it.

Jim
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Old 31-08-2016, 14:45   #185
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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Hmm..

My observation is that folks who have such devices become dependent upon them. And we have observed, both in the flesh and vicariously here on CF, folks bemoaning the fact that "the xxx is broken and parts are not locally available and there is no technician here to fix it anyway, so we are STUCK in this hell hole..."

So, yeah, Ken, there are folks complaining about their conveniences... lots of them.

As you keep repeating, I don't care what other folks need to go cruising, but I do object to arguments such as yours above. The realistic view is that conveniences sometimes become a burden that seriously interfere with one's cruising rather than enhancing it.

Jim
That hasn't been our experience.

Our generator was broken for three weeks recently, it didn't stop us in our tracks, in fact we sailed from Naples, Italy over to Montenegro without it. Mrs. Mac returned from her Massachusetts trip with the necessary solenoid... No big deal, I just used the engine to charge meanwhile, except for the day the engine quit. No problem, it took five hours to figure that out myself along with a fellow cruising friend.

Just because we occasionally have difficulty with a convenience doesn't mean life will be better without it. Redundancy is something else we've added, like having two watermakers which actually function like having four individual units. We also carry a huge selection of spare parts for all systems.

Just because something might break, isn't a logical reason to never have it.
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Old 31-08-2016, 15:02   #186
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
"Modern conveniences" are great, but come at a cost. There is a cost to purchase and install, a cost to operate, and a cost to maintain and repair. If you can manage all these costs of time, skills and money, then great! Fill your boots, or your boats with them. If you can't, then having a boat full of "conveniences" can become damn inconvenient.

I have plenty of "modern conveniences" on my boat. I will get more (possibly a watermaker). They are reasonably well matched to my skill and my resources. I, and my spouse (yes, a real live cruising woman!) am living quite comfortably.

And Ken, you've clearly never actually gone camping since you continue to make this silly "camping" remark. I can take you actual camping if you like, and show you the difference .

As for the "most women" comment, well, I think most people here have provided adequate feedback. Ascribing attributes based solely on gender is a painful old patriarchal trope that most people are at least trying to get beyond.
Hey Mike, I often agree with most of what you say, but the political correctness when ever gender is mentioned is just a form of bullying ( no offense). In regards to my early "most women" arent into cruising comment, this has been my experience from what ive observed while cruising the last 7-8 years, and im not talking about the women that have crewed with me. Most of the women I meet out there (not all) are there in support of there partners dream not because its something they would choose or intiate themselves. Of course the women reading CF are into cruising, are their opinions representative of all women?
I believe Ken is right when he says women enjoy the comforts that he can provide on his boat, comforts that immitate what we have on land. Most cruising boats aren't as comfortable as Kens, most people dont want to leave these comforts behind and I would suggest that applies to women more so than men.
What percentage of contributors on this forum are men? What percentage are women? Am I ascribing old patriarchal trope (what ever that means) that more men are interested in cruisers forum than women? Wouldnt this also reflect which gender is more intetested in cruising in general?
Personally I get tired of people wanting to throw rocks at anyone that says something that a women dosent like, gay person dosent like, an unemployed person dosent like etc etc etc.
I see nothing in previous responses on this thread as offensive to women, although some have an will continue to be offended.


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Old 31-08-2016, 15:04   #187
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
That hasn't been our experience.

Our generator was broken for three weeks recently, it didn't stop us in our tracks, in fact we sailed from Naples, Italy over to Montenegro without it. Mrs. Mac returned from her Massachusetts trip with the necessary solenoid... No big deal, I just used the engine to charge meanwhile, except for the day the engine quit. No problem, it took five hours to figure that out myself along with a fellow cruising friend.

Just because we occasionally have difficulty with a convenience doesn't mean life will be better without it. Redundancy is something else we've added, like having two watermakers which actually function like having four individual units. We also carry a huge selection of spare parts for all systems.

Just because something might break, isn't a logical reason to never have it.
But Ken, you said that you" had never met a man or woman who complained about having conveniences". YOU may never complain (although I doubt that myself) but others sure do, and that was my point.

It seems that you never have problems that interfere with your cruising. You are unusual.

Jim
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Old 31-08-2016, 15:11   #188
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Try asking this delivery skipper..
I ask the owners to pickle WM's if its a long trip.. and never used washing machines on them either..
Genset.. whole different thing...
Delivery <> Cruise.
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Old 31-08-2016, 15:13   #189
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

Don CL mentioned that his good lady wife uses the "compared to what" standard for boat luxuries.

When we first arrived in Fiji, and visited with the locals, we saw that they had communal toilets, flushed by bucket, a common village hose to fill buckets with potable water hauled to the homes in buckets, and wood fired open cooking hearths out the back of their bures (homes). I brought some women out to see the boat --I'd seen their spaces, they wanted to see mine-- they admired my "gas cooker" (LPG, two burner marine stove), that I could stand to cook, having a flush toilet, and "built-in" sleeping and cooking. I must say that their set up was luxurious, compared to pit latrines, village well, and fire pits. The people, they were cheerful and welcoming. To some extent, that's my "compared to what", but I, too have been backpacking, so I also have that for personal comparison,as well.

I'd love to have a washing machine aboard, but that would require adding a watermaker and a genset, too, and lots of plumbing, wiring, re-allocating space uses, a huge project. I wouldn't even ask for it, because it would add so much complexity. Complexity means loss of time. You're either doing "it" yourself, or hung up waiting for people you pay to do "it". Both ways are taking care of the problem, and both take time that otherwise would be spent doing something else fun. Or less fun, like going to the laundromat.

For Gadagirl, this is not a therapy problem. Furthermore, it would be extremely unlikely to find a therapist who would have a realistic concept of liveaboard cruising, and that knowledge is what landlubbers generally lack.

For me, Gadagirl hanging back from making a decision may be because she's lacking a critical bit of information to make it. And none of us may hit on that. But what I firmly believe is that one of the trade-offs--perceived security of more money--may not be true (unexpected accidents of fate). But I'm sure as I'm sitting here that you trade that concept for time. The older you get the less time you have (though you never know how much there will be). If you believe that you could "always" keep body and soul together on SSI (if it's still there), then leaving sooner will give you more time to enjoy the state of "no bills", "no address", plans written at low water in the sand. Your choice.

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Old 31-08-2016, 15:14   #190
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
That hasn't been our experience.

Our generator was broken for three weeks recently, it didn't stop us in our tracks, in fact we sailed from Naples, Italy over to Montenegro without it. Mrs. Mac returned from her Massachusetts trip with the necessary solenoid... No big deal, I just used the engine to charge meanwhile, except for the day the engine quit. No problem, it took five hours to figure that out myself along with a fellow cruising friend.

Just because we occasionally have difficulty with a convenience doesn't mean life will be better without it. Redundancy is something else we've added, like having two watermakers which actually function like having four individual units. We also carry a huge selection of spare parts for all systems.

Just because something might break, isn't a logical reason to never have it.
I agree with you Ken. My experience is that most of my stuff is fairly reliable. As mentioned earlier I would cruise with or without the comfortable stuff ,but the fear of being a slave to fixing them dosent enter into the equation for me as I think most of my fringe benefit stuff is as reliable as my other stuff, autopilot etc.

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Old 31-08-2016, 15:16   #191
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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Just because something might break, isn't a logical reason to never have it.
Quite true... logically I suppose... but to some of us, well I'll just speak for me, if something might break I'd prefer not to depend on it if I really don't have to. It is, to me, an intrusion on my peace of mind. So for those of us who choose to go simpler, not necessarily to save the world with granola, I'd say we are being at least a bit logical too, no? At least insofar as we are able to convince whoever else is along that THEY don't need that THING either.
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Old 31-08-2016, 15:17   #192
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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But Ken, you said that you" had never met a man or woman who complained about having conveniences". YOU may never complain (although I doubt that myself) but others sure do, and that was my point.

It seems that you never have problems that interfere with your cruising. You are unusual.

Jim
So... You've met some complainers and I haven't. If I eventually run into one of your complainers, I don't think it's going to make us rid ourselves of all modern conveniences just because someone else thinks they might break someday.

Six seasons cruising, never once forced to stop in our tracks and be miserable. Maybe attitude has something to do with it?

My advice: Stop hanging around complainers.
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Old 31-08-2016, 15:49   #193
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
For me, Gadagirl hanging back from making a decision may be because she's lacking a critical bit of information to make it. And none of us may hit on that. But what I firmly believe is that one of the trade-offs--perceived security of more money--may not be true (unexpected accidents of fate). But I'm sure as I'm sitting here that you trade that concept for time. The older you get the less time you have (though you never know how much there will be). If you believe that you could "always" keep body and soul together on SSI (if it's still there), then leaving sooner will give you more time to enjoy the state of "no bills", "no address", plans written at low water in the sand. Your choice.

Ann
It occurs to me, Ann, in reading this that maybe it is not JUST a matter of having the money and time... Is it possible that for some folks it is the ambiguity of the goal and purpose of a life while cruising that causes some to pause? In other words, the "ok, now what?" that may come, once you are out there, and no satisfying answer comes back? Some folks are happy with the ambiguity, others need it to be more meaningful, or to make some kind of a contribution, and so, (thankfully, in some cases,) record their adventures for the rest of us in blogs and websites and youtube...
When I was younger I wanted more significance, more purpose to my sailing addiction so I started teaching kids, taking them on trips... as I get older, just sailing around is more and more satisfying, all by itself... reminds me of "The Giving Tree" by Shel Silverstein... must be getting older
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Old 31-08-2016, 16:13   #194
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

"dependent on stuff", typed on a computer, over the internet, posted on a forum

I find that so funny

did any of you do it with a smart phone, because would be even funnier
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Old 31-08-2016, 16:40   #195
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Re: Professional therapy, motivational coach, or CF?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
So... You've met some complainers and I haven't. If I eventually run into one of your complainers, I don't think it's going to make us rid ourselves of all modern conveniences just because someone else thinks they might break someday.

Six seasons cruising, never once forced to stop in our tracks and be miserable. Maybe attitude has something to do with it?

My advice: Stop hanging around complainers.
Wow! Six whole seasons! I'm curious: during the off season, when you are working stateside,, do you have maintenance or other jobs done on your boat? Things that full time cruisers have to do while cruising? Perhaps that as well as attitude have influenced your thinking. Perhaps not...

My advice: stop giving me advice about how to live/cruise/hang out. I'm managing to do ok with those with whom I hang out. They're mostly other cruisers. Some have complex boats, some have simple, few complain very much, many have had to stay put somewhere while fixing their boat... including us, and our boat is on the simple side.

Like I said, you are unusual.

Jim
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