Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-04-2015, 15:38   #31
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Power or Sail??

Ladycruiser:

You are new to posting in this forum, so perhaps you might have missed some of the many discussions on this forum that address the "Sail or Power" question. Here is a link to a Custom Google Search of the forum that found many threads discussing that issue.

sail or power - Google Search
_____________________

Smaller power boats (yachts) can make it around the world. Here is a link to a smaller boat (57 feet) that did a circumnavigation with a somewhat unusual boat (it has a small engine and is narrow beam). It is an interesting story and could be inspirational. The boat is "Idlewild." I enjoyed reading this site and seeing the many photos of the boat as it went around.
The Boat
__________________

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2015, 16:55   #32
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Power or Sail??

You will find a number of boats that motor flawlessly (fast, comfortably and fuel-efficiently) but at the same time can be effectively sailed for weeks and months, without any help from engines.

Get a boat that will tick your boxes. Get a boat that you will feel good with. One that will fuel the cruising dream too.

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2015, 18:33   #33
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,415
Re: Power or Sail??

The cheapest and safest way to cross the seas is on a ship. Don't discount the stage shows, piano bars, made-up beds, and other civilized accommodations.


__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2015, 07:47   #34
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: Power or Sail??

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
The cheapest and safest way to cross the seas is on a ship. Don't discount the stage shows, piano bars, made-up beds, and other civilized accommodations.
Or an airplane. Not as much fun but quicker and probably cheaper.
__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2015, 09:13   #35
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: Power or Sail??

If your boat is a corporate expense.. you can only personally use it like 2 weeks a year right?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2015, 09:50   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,511
Re: Power or Sail??

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladycruiser View Post
Travel and entertainment expense for the company.... I will just take a few clients out for day excursions :-). Nice tax write off :-)
You'd better get some good tax advice before you try that one. And I don't mean the free crap advice from the internet. And be prepared to get audited on an annual basis and have your entire scheme turn to $hit.


If you decide to move forward with your tax scheme, make sure you have a bailout plan in place for when you'll need it.... I mean this literally.
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2015, 11:00   #37
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,379
Re: Power or Sail??

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Or an airplane. Not as much fun but quicker and probably cheaper.
Certainly cheaper to get there by air. The costs really kick in once you arrive. In Europe even if you try to go on the cheap you should figure $100/day for food and hotels (unless you sleep in a dormitory style hostel).

On a boat, anchor out and cook on board. Should save $85-$90/day.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2015, 11:30   #38
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Power or Sail??

Yep.

Rtw on a series of cruise ships

would be fun.


In some more remote places, one can hitch a ride on a local cargo ship to see the archipelagos. It is the case e.g. in Papeete.

I would love to be able to have such a rtw cruise and ship hitchhike trip!

As someone says above: on a plane it comes out cheaper, but then again it could be too fast, unless we make long stopovers at each destination.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2015, 12:00   #39
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Power or Sail??

We kind of drifted off the power vs sail subject but I don't see the lady's responses so maybe we've lost her?
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2015, 13:06   #40
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,400
Images: 1
Re: Power or Sail??

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladycruiser View Post
I know I will catch a lot of flack for this question.... But here goes my first post after stalking for months and months

I know the cost considerations of fuel vs cost of rigging etc.... I wanna hear all the other positives and negatives

I have a $300k budget for the boat which I plan to purchase within the next year..... Planning to hit the seas within two weeks of my youngest graduating high school.... 6 more years but I wanna get the boat now to learn her and gain more experience.... and take shorter trips figuring out what more I need to outfit her with etc ect

I wouldn't say that I'm even close to an avid sailor.... My first time sailing was when I was 16yrs old.... Took sailing in college learning on small dinghy sails.... Gave it up for years after having kids.... 3 years ago I started sailing again and have been learning on a 36' hunter. I get out a few times a month and more when time allows.... I love sailing but my partner will have zero sailing experience and no way for me to teach him before we leave due to him being in another country.

My conservative budget will give me 6-8 years living the dream (poor) seeing the world with no time constraints.... And hopefully longer if I Can come up with a way to make money while traveling.... Currently the plan is an early retirement/ very long sabbatical.... Selling my shares in my company, selling off the house and all other assets.....

This is a life long dream and I wanna start the process now so I am completely prepared.... Now just need to decide on the right boat!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Find a good pilothouse motorsailer & enjoy the best of both worlds,while staying dry & comfy.
Cheers / Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2015, 13:14   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 38
Posts: 563
Re: Power or Sail??

Firstly, I think it's a huge mistake to spend $200+ on a boat if you still have a question like power or sail. That needs to be resolved much more cheaply.

I'm going to take a lot of heat on this forum for this recommendation, but I suggest you get a Power-sailor. They're both sail boats and power boats, large enough to camp in for a weekend (which sounds like its your next few years) or to do a week or two.

These boats are 26 feet long, Good condition used in the $20,000 range, and they are a hybrid between a sailboat and a cruising powerboat (think 26' bayliner, but generally more cheaply made). Best part is they'll resale for about the same as you paid for it used if it remains in good condition. Because they trailer, they don't lose their value nearly as quickly as a boat that must be slipped. Of course with bottom paint you can slip them which I recommend because constant trailering is a real hassle and not the experience you're looking to acquire.

You can use these boats either way, as a pure trawler, a planing powerboat, or a sailboat. They're not nearly as good in any mode as a "pure" example of the type, but they switch back and forth between modes easily. Under power they'll go up to about 20mph depending on what kind of motor they have.

Anyone can raise, lower, unstep, and remove the mast in an hour. Anyone. They use a winch system that makes it pretty easy. The mast and rigging comes off completely by removing a few clevis pins and lowering it over the site to the ground with the dock-lines. And when unstepped they don't look like a sailboat missing it's mast. I personally don't like the 80's euro-style look to them, but many people do. You often see them being used without their rigging, and many owners who used to sail them remove the rigging in their later years and keep using the same boat.

They're bad enough at sailing that you'll really learn how to sail. You have to trim constantly to maintain speed, and you really learn the dynamics involved in sailing, unlike the bigger keelboats where you can just set your sails, put the autopilot on, and take a nap. They aren't speed deamons with a hull speed of 6.5 knots and a reasonable expectation of 5 knots if you really know what you're doing.

They use water-ballast in order to be lighter for power mode, so you MUST ensure the tanks are filled when you sail or these boats can knock down. It's easy to do but its also easy to forget, so be mindful of it if you get one.

Anyway, after three years with a power-sailor, you will know FOR CERTAIN whether you want to sail or you want to power. You'll get most of your money back in resale, and you'll have wasted FAR less money than buying the wrong big boat. For that matter, the difference in price between purchase and sail will cost less than a single option on a big new boat.

It's what I did, and I wound up going the sailing route. Many others go power, but amongst the group of powersailor owners I know, most wind up graduating to larger sailboats, with some going to trawlers, and nobody really going to cabin cruisers. Those boats are just too expensive in fuel costs for most long-distance cruisers.

My humble opinion. Let the flaming begin!
__________________
mstrebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 14:08   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 8
Re: Power or Sail??

I was joking with the travel and entertainment expense!! That part of my story is not at all relevant or important to my original question. I'm a CFO and a tax accountant.... So trust me when I say I wouldn't do anything stupid!! I wasn't asking for financial advice!! My financials are not at questions here.... I have $300k to spend now.... I will have the budget including maint and a nest egg set aside to move back on land.

My original question is what are the positives and negatives of power vs sail besides fuel and rigging costs. I asked the question to hear from others who have been there and done it. I like making educated decisions and I like hearing from experienced people. I like the idea of being able to motor around the globe but if this isn't feasible I'd like to hear the horror stories and reasons why. I also love sailing and letting nature be in charge!! I'm just looking to hear stories of those more experienced at sea..... Positives and negatives of each


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
ladycruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 14:28   #43
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Power or Sail??

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladycruiser View Post
I was joking with the travel and entertainment expense!! That part of my story is not at all relevant or important to my original question. I'm a CFO and a tax accountant.... So trust me when I say I wouldn't do anything stupid!! I wasn't asking for financial advice!! My financials are not at questions here.... I have $300k to spend now.... I will have the budget including maint and a nest egg set aside to move back on land.

My original question is what are the positives and negatives of power vs sail besides fuel and rigging costs. I asked the question to hear from others who have been there and done it. I like making educated decisions and I like hearing from experienced people. I like the idea of being able to motor around the globe but if this isn't feasible I'd like to hear the horror stories and reasons why. I also love sailing and letting nature be in charge!! I'm just looking to hear stories of those more experienced at sea..... Positives and negatives of each


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I'm glad you're back. Every now and then folks get on a thread drift away from the original questions.

At sea a sail is a very nice thing to have because you roll less and you can save a bit of fuel cost. Many old Grand Banks power boats had a steadying sail just for anti roll purpose. My suggestion about a motorsailer was a serious one. There are many fine vessels in your price range that would give you the best of both worlds so that's where I would look if I were in your shoes and on the fence.

As I've said, because sometimes I am singlehanding and the cost of maintanance is much less I prefer a vessel 36 and under. If you are always going to have crew then your budget is your limit. The only two motorsailers I've had any experience with are Cal 2-46 and Lancer 44. Neither of those are extremely high end boats but would probably fit your needs and could, in a pinch, be singlehanded.

And, it is more about what you want to do than pros and cons. Usually buying a boat is more about following your heart vs using your head. I like to sail, therefore I have a sailboat. I was once into trying to go fast via sailing so did not opt for a motorsailer. If starting at my age now I would opt for less sail and more power like my friend with his Hallberg Rassy Rasmus 35. It is not a motorsailer but motors reasonably well for a sailboat and he's built quite a nice dodger so its more like an inside steering station.

kind regards,
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 16:18   #44
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Power or Sail??

Motorsailor or Motorsailer?

2,500 results in this forum using Google Custom Search

motorsailor - Google Search
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 16:59   #45
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Power or Sail??

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladycruiser View Post

... Positives and negatives of each

(...)

Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I love the way you re-wrote your point. I think you deserve an extension. I am writing from the point of view of one who did (under sail). We met people doing the same under power. Clearly, both methods are fine.

POWER:

Pros:
- you have more control of where and when you go,
- you have one system less onboard,
- you have more space onboard,
- you have better choice of ports and anchorages,
- you will go faster thru calms,

Cons:
- you have no auxiliary propulsion,
- you will roll more on some routes,
- you will find it difficult or impossible to refill in some locations,

For SAIL the cons and pros are nearly symmetrical.

Given some boat size (big size), the cons and pros nearly cancel out.

Remember you can always do it twice, once in each type of a boat.

Fair winds.

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale or Trade: Sail to Power to Sail BobHorn Classifieds Archive 0 25-01-2015 14:46
Want To Buy: looking for a power cat or power boat with indo flag santelli76 Classifieds Archive 1 22-04-2013 21:13
For Sale: 2003 40' Power Catamaran w/ a Sail Rig, 20kts under Power and Sails Also $225K double exposure Classifieds Archive 3 15-07-2012 16:27
How much electric power is needed to power a 40 - 45' cat at 5 knots? KHK007 Multihull Sailboats 40 18-03-2008 07:16



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.