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Old 18-04-2015, 11:38   #16
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Re: Power or Sail??

Another thing - going from no boat at all to a 58', 90,000# boat would be a mistake. It takes a bit of skill and experience to operate a boat and the bigger the boat, the more skill and experience would be needed, power or sail. And of course, that 58' boat is going to cost a lot to operate, slip and maintain.


Better to get something around 30' and learn, then go bigger if necessary.


It's easy to jump into boating with big dreams and expectations, but it's better to be practical about it.
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Old 18-04-2015, 12:36   #17
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Re: Power or Sail??

We want a sail assisted trawler. Not really interested in a pure sail boat.

The designer of the boat uses a sail to assist moving the boat when the conditions are right, to steady the boat, and as a back up to the engine. Weighing the pros and cons, I think the designer has it right....

However, some owners are putting ketch rigs on the boat which increases purchase price and adds long term expenses. From a dollars and cents perspective, I don't think this is the right thing to do but from a fun perspective it might be the right thing to do. I won't know what we will do until we order the boat and see how much money we really have to spend.

We have thought about buying a boat, or even The Boat, before we retire but to do so would be a financial mistake. A huge mistake. With our schedule we would be hard pressed to spend four weeks on the boat. To pay for a boat 52 weeks a year so we could be on the boat for four weeks does not make money sense. Instead we will charter.

It sounds like we and the OP have about the same time frame to escape the kids. Another reason we won't own a boat now is that there are many things that could happen between now and our planned escape date that would prevent our escape. I have run the probabilities and we have at best a 50/50 chance of going due to so many issues completely beyond our control. For us, it just does not make any sense, money or otherwise, to own a boat right now.

What we want though is a trawler with at least some sailing abilities.

Later,
Dan
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Old 18-04-2015, 12:44   #18
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Re: Power or Sail??

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Another thing - going from no boat at all to a 58', 90,000# boat would be a mistake. It takes a bit of skill and experience to operate a boat and the bigger the boat, the more skill and experience would be needed, power or sail. And of course, that 58' boat is going to cost a lot to operate, slip and maintain.


Better to get something around 30' and learn, then go bigger if necessary.


It's easy to jump into boating with big dreams and expectations, but it's better to be practical about it.
Mo Debbely!
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Old 18-04-2015, 12:50   #19
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Re: Power or Sail??

I love this forum!!! Thanks for all the input!! Currently im pretty well experienced on the 36' hunter and handle her very well around Newport and to Catalina. But I am smart enough to know that I will need much more experience on shorter passages before making the long ones. The only reason I can't go now is because my kids are still in school, very involved in athletics and travel ball. I would love to get them out to travel but they wouldn't go with me cause they are too involved on land even though they love sailing with me and have taken sailing lessons and know how to dock a boat and tie all the knots they wouldn't go.... And my ex husband would NEVER let me take them for months on end to sail!! I'm hoping once they are in college they will fly out to wherever I am and sail with me some time in summers. But for now I have to wait till they finish high school!!

The $300k budget is just for the boat.... I will have the budget to live comfortably for 6-8 years including maintenance of the boat. I will have a reserve fund for the inevitable time where I will have to be land based again for periods or at least parked in a marina for a year or two while I replenish my funds.... Even better if I can manage to make money while traveling but currently I am not planning to work while traveling.... At least not for the first few years....I'll be 45 when I set off and hopefully God willing I will still be in good physical health!!!



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Old 18-04-2015, 12:54   #20
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Re: Power or Sail??

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Another thing - going from no boat at all to a 58', 90,000# boat would be a mistake. It takes a bit of skill and experience to operate a boat and the bigger the boat, the more skill and experience would be needed, power or sail. And of course, that 58' boat is going to cost a lot to operate, slip and maintain.


Better to get something around 30' and learn, then go bigger if necessary.


It's easy to jump into boating with big dreams and expectations, but it's better to be practical about it.
That might be excellent advice but that's an answer to a question that she didn't ask.

The reality is that it is very unlikely that someone with little experience will do what she says that she wants to do. Not for me to say though.

There are lots of sailboat choices that will work. Not so many power choices in that price range.

I am just answering the power part as requested.
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Old 18-04-2015, 12:54   #21
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Re: Power or Sail??

I understand buying the boat early is financially not the smartest.... However in my case the boat will be paid for by my company and all the cost to maintain her the next six years.... So for me, right now it's just about being able to have the boat, learn her, take shorter passages and mostly be able to enjoy the lifestyle even if only part time for now!!


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Old 18-04-2015, 13:03   #22
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Re: Power or Sail??

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I understand buying the boat early is financially not the smartest.... However in my case the boat will be paid for by my company and all the cost to maintain her the next six years.... So for me, right now it's just about being able to have the boat, learn her, take shorter passages and mostly be able to enjoy the lifestyle even if only part time for now!!


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How will the boat be paid for by your company?
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Old 18-04-2015, 13:08   #23
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Re: Power or Sail??

Travel and entertainment expense for the company.... I will just take a few clients out for day excursions :-). Nice tax write off :-)


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Old 18-04-2015, 13:20   #24
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Re: Power or Sail??

Good questions--and lots of good advice. I think it boils down to m,ength of passages and desired cruising areas and days at sea. However, one caveat--be very, very careful about entertaining clients and using your boat as a business or business-related venture. It may cause you insurance difficulties and it may be construed as a passenger vessel carrying passengers for hire. DO NOT take this caveat lightly as a mishap, a claim, an injury, collision or fatality could lose you your business, your property and in the most severe situation, could bring criminal charges and cost you your personal freedom. Some will say "Oh he's overreacting" but so what? Have a maritime lawyer check this out completely and do some further research, especially Section 46 of the Code of Federal Regulations under shipping. Oh, and did I mention the IRS?
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Old 18-04-2015, 13:23   #25
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Re: Power or Sail??

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Originally Posted by ladycruiser View Post
Travel and entertainment expense for the company.... I will just take a few clients out for day excursions :-). Nice tax write off :-)


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Business Expenses

Be careful here, because the IRS says you cannot deduct business expenses for a yacht used for anything that can be considered entertainment, amusement or recreation. The IRS is super strict when it comes to mixing business with pleasure in your deductions, so donít go overboard Ė both literally and figuratively in this case. For example, if you entertain clients on your boat for a valid business purpose, you may be able to deduct the eventís direct expenses, such as a portion of the food, even though the cost of the boat itself isnít deductible.


Tax Reduction Letter - Tax Rules That Allow Tax Deductions for Your Yacht

Boats and Taxes, What You Need to Know | Block Talk - The H&R Block Official Corporate Blog
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Old 18-04-2015, 13:33   #26
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Re: Power or Sail??

The IRS will be the least of your worries if there is a marine casualty of any sort and the Coast Guard gets involved. It is the worst case scenario to be sure, but why risk running what the USCG may consider carrying passengers for hire if there is any remuneration or expectation of remuneration involved. Such cases have gone to Admiralty and Federal Courts. DO NOT take this casually...seek expert advice...and charge it to your company!
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Old 18-04-2015, 13:42   #27
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Re: Power or Sail??

2 cents here. Everything is a compromise as was said. Also everything is economics. No one knows what the price of oil will be. No one knows what boats will sell for in 6 years. No one knows what health costs will be or whether we'll be healthy enough to cruise in 6 years. You only know what you want to do now and that is to buy a boat. There are motorsailers which do neither well. One of my friends decided he liked both so he bought two boats. One power and one sail. If your goal is to cross oceans then a motorsailer might be what you want. My personal preference is something 36 and under in length, fiberglass, diesel power. It would be nice to have an enclosed steering station but I like that station to be aft so I can keep an eye on things while looking forward.

You've had the Hunter 36 experience so you know what your interior limits will be. Go with what you fall in love with. If you fall in love with a power vessel then just give up on the ocean crossing idea unless it has a sail option.

Go to boat shows do some motorsailer searches and see what your options are. Walk the docks and talk to people.

And, before you buy hire a good marine surveyor and tell them that you want them to tell you about every flaw they can find. Then, when they give you the report read it carefully and internalize what they tell you.

Good luck in your search. I think we've all been where you are in varying degrees. I just never considered power because I was in Hawaii and understood what it would take to get a powered vesssel back to the mainland and I liked to sail.
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Old 18-04-2015, 13:48   #28
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Re: Power or Sail??

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Originally Posted by ladycruiser View Post
Travel and entertainment expense for the company.... I will just take a few clients out for day excursions :-). Nice tax write off :-)


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That's a horse of a different color. Don't try to cheat the government and pay attention to the Coast Guard Captain's license requirements or you'll set your company up for a world of hurt. If you are the company then it is not a safe thing to do. The IRS and the USCG are probably watching this forum as well so don't let too many secrets out.
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Old 18-04-2015, 14:08   #29
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Re: Power or Sail??

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That might be excellent advice but that's an answer to a question that she didn't ask................
True, but wouldn't the more experienced members feel obligated to answer it anyway? Some people don't know all the questions they should be asking.
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Old 18-04-2015, 14:16   #30
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Re: Power or Sail??

1) I wouldn't count on that tax write off thing. Several people have mentioned it already, but the government has been dealing with tax write off schemes for a long time and is pretty strict when it comes to write offs and deductions. Check with a good tax lawyer before you head in that direction.

2) Many people dream of crossing oceans in a boat but very few do. Flying to another continent and chartering a boat could be a better option.
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