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View Poll Results: If you were crewing on this boat on that day, would you crew again?
Yes (why?) 1 5.88%
No (why?) 13 76.47%
Perhaps (why?) 3 17.65%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 25-04-2012, 03:59   #16
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
No committee i have ever seen does not list it as a requirement if only to prevent liability and also as common sense.

I have raced for over 30 years and never been on a boat where everyone didnt wear pfds.
Wow - very different experience here. Can't say I've ever seen a full crew in pfds on inshore races (dingy etc excepting) - this is SE Asia. Never seen SI's requiring the wearing of pfds. Did a 580nm Cat 1 Offshore 2 weeks ago, nothing about a requirement to wear lifejackets in either ISAF Special Regulations or SI's.

PS: I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that if a crew deliberately countered a skippers safety based instruction, he/she should be off the boat.
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Old 25-04-2012, 04:21   #17
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

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Wow - very different experience here. Can't say I've ever seen a full crew in pfds on inshore races (dingy etc excepting) - this is SE Asia. Never seen SI's requiring the wearing of pfds. Did a 580nm Cat 1 Offshore 2 weeks ago, nothing about a requirement to wear lifejackets in either ISAF Special Regulations or SI's.

PS: I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that if a crew deliberately countered a skippers safety based instruction, he/she should be off the boat.
Is there a word in Thai for PDF?
Can not recall one or ever seeing one worn around Phuket.
So if the skipper says DO NOT WEAR A PDF,self inflating........They are dangerious......As to the original post this is a saftey based order in his mind..then? And having googled it for the first time think he could make a case for it.And what should be the liabilities in the US if he loses a crew member?
Just the devils advocate.....not personal
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Old 25-04-2012, 04:21   #18
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

Wow is right. Im surprised. Most of my racing would be in large digny's like melges, 1/4 tonners, cats, etchells etc, but still...

The rules wouldnt be found in the Offshore reg...they are part of the core ISAF regs - rule 40 as I mentioned but are optional, ie no Y flag, no requirement. Usually there would be notice in the SI's though as it would be unfair to just hoist the Y flag at the start...
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Old 25-04-2012, 04:33   #19
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

Here is an example of a typical SI for one of the fleets I used to sail in...

http://www.sfyc.org/files/12_resin_si.pdf

note in the SI's it removes Rule 40 and replaces it with

Rule 1.2 RRS 40 is deleted and replaced with: “All competitors shall wear life jackets or adequate personal buoyancy while racing.” Note that Flag Y will not be displayed.

havent raced in asia even though I had a boat there for years in Lumut...kinda not surprised at the difference now that I think about it...
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Old 25-04-2012, 04:46   #20
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

I'd use it as a red flag to wonder about the Skipper's overall competency (on this trip, let alone the next!) - but, if that turned out to be my only concern then I would treat it much the same as religion, on some things, especially those around "safety" (Anchors / Guns / PFD's / Harnesses / EPIRB's / Liferafts / etc / etc) some people simply have weird ideas.....as long as I could do what I considered safe (enough) then IMO no harm, no foul.

....I would be curious about the Skippers thinking / experiance to reach that conclusion.
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Old 25-04-2012, 04:49   #21
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

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Is there a word in Thai for PDF?
Can not recall one or ever seeing one worn around Phuket.
If a local, then probably cheaper to replace the crew.
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Old 25-04-2012, 04:52   #22
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

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If a local, then probably cheaper to replace the crew.
Laughning,
thank you.I needed a good laugh today.
Sad but true
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Old 25-04-2012, 04:59   #23
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Here is an example of a typical SI for one of the fleets I used to sail in...

http://www.sfyc.org/files/12_resin_si.pdf

note in the SI's it removes Rule 40 and replaces it with

Rule 1.2 RRS 40 is deleted and replaced with: “All competitors shall wear life jackets or adequate personal buoyancy while racing.” Note that Flag Y will not be displayed. .
Interesting....

It seems to be a trend....a perception by yacht clubs / race committees, that the individual is unable to make responsible decisions his / herself and so the RRS should be amended to make that decision for them.

Not sure that I like this trend too much.

Interesting to note that, in the absence of an SI amendment to RRS, Rule 1.2 puts the onus on the individual to decide on whether to wear a pfd, not the skipper.
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Old 25-04-2012, 08:07   #24
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

I guess a PFD is like a parachute...You really don't need one unless you want to practice the sport the next time.
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Old 25-04-2012, 08:43   #25
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I race in our local club. Either my boat or others. I always bring my PFD. I may or may not wear it depending on conditions but it is always MY choice and my choice alone.
If the skipper, owner, whoever, told me I could not wear it... Well simple. They could find a different crew member. I would leave without hesitation.
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Old 25-04-2012, 09:11   #26
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

I worked at a lake for one summer, we had one death that year. An epileptic guy who was 19 years old. His last words were "I ain't wearin' no sissy lifejacket." He had a seizure, fell overboard, and they found him 2 days later in 80 feet of water.
I wear mine unless we're in the harbor, when I'm standing up so I can see well enough to dock it interferes with the wheel because I'm too fat.
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Old 25-04-2012, 10:28   #27
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

Wow...after the recent tragic loss in the Farrallones....and the report from one of the survivors of the "Low Speed Chase" that while they all had PFDs, none were clipped in....it is certainly clear that PFDs should be worn by all on board...and clipped in. The problem is, as we all have to admit, that if we clip on...it is usually when we decide.."oh hey..it's getting a bit boisterous..better clip on" . The prudent sailor...(who is that guy anyway?) clips on before it gets boisterous..but how many really do ? I have been mulling over which of the numerous new PFDs now on the market to buy...we need to update our flotation and safety equipment...so I have been shopping the choices...and not the least of my concerns is exactly the issue of auto inflate vs. manual...and concerns over the situation that occurred on the "Wingnut" MacKinnac race disaster. What if ?...The simple answer...?... is finding a PFD w/auto-inflate w/manual inflator and deflator. Of course all clip on tethers must have quick release mechanisms, and a good anti magnetic knife in case the quick release mechanism on the tether were to get stuck closed....the purpose of this long post is not to simply express my ruminations on the survival mechanisms available but to promote discussions on what PFDs have been proven to be superior, based on personal use. Given the price of what would appear to be a suitably appropriate sailing PFD vs. the value one places on ones life, I am requesting input from the sailing community here as to recommendations relative to which PFD to purchase...mindful of the fact that purchasing is only the first step....the practice of regular use while sailing is the vitally necessary component at issue. Thanks
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Old 25-04-2012, 10:31   #28
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

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... if that turned out to be my only concern then I would treat it much the same as religion[snip]....as long as I could do what I considered safe (enough) then IMO no harm, no foul.

I guess I feel pretty much the same way...

If (and only if) she was adamant about her auto-inflate PFD AND I only had a passing concern for the safety of said device; I could let it go as a skipper and she should probably let it go as crew.

After the race us drunken, dyslexic, agnostic, insomniacs could gather, share our spirit of choice, and collectively ponder the existence of dog.

(NOTE: I'm not really a dyslexic insomniac and have no idea about David_Old_Jersey; I categorically refuse to reveal my personal beliefs about either of the other adjectives in the preceding sentence...)

Happy sailing...
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Old 25-04-2012, 10:51   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susanna reiter
I have been mulling over which of the numerous new PFDs now on the market to buy...we need to update our flotation and safety equipment...so I have been shopping the choices...and not the least of my concerns is exactly the issue of auto inflate vs. manual...and concerns over the situation that occurred on the "Wingnut" MacKinnac race disaster. What if ?...
See this video from the 2009 Practical Boat Owner review of lifejackets. This isnt the artilce but the video they took during the demonstration. Their conclusion? If you dont have a hood and properly secured crotch strap you likelyhood of survival for any period of time in offshore bad weather conditions is very low. A big problem was the vest reducing ability to breath as it pushed up around the head due to no crotch strap and also the fact that inflatable vests dont lift your head up enough to prevent taking in huge amounts of water...the hoods that one can find on some pfds turn out not to be gimmicks afterall but very effective.

I am considering replacing our gear as well with pfds with hoods...

http://www.pbo.co.uk/expert-advice/a...fejacket-tests
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Old 25-04-2012, 10:54   #30
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Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

No.
Why: The day the skipper tells me that I can not use a USCG approved PFD (approved for intended and designed use) will be the last day I sail with that skipper. Minimum safety is the skippers job, anything above and beyond that falls on the individual.
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