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Old 17-12-2014, 12:08   #151
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Example: You're anchored in a secure anchorage, then the wind shifts 90 degrees or dies completely.... your boat is now facing parallel to the 1 meter swell. In the Hunter 450, everything including the people end up being launched across the boat due to the high freeboard, shallow draft keel. Everyone in the anchorage is rolling, some more than others. You don't need to be in a surf to experience this, it happens to everyone eventually and can happen anytime the wind dies but the swell continues.
Seriously. This is awesome.

I'll go with RTB on this one. It's a good idea to check the explorer charts (or similar) to make sure it's actually a "secure anchorage" (without excessive swell due to surge, etc.). Then, if you still happen to get caught, it's probably good to take whatever action to reduce the problem before your people start getting launched.

As I've said before, I followed the Hunter 49 Sequitur as they made their way through many crazy anchorages near Cape Horn. They did just fine.

So, back to the sailor.
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Old 17-12-2014, 12:32   #152
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

I'm enjoying this thread and learning a lot.

Thanks all the definitions, information on displacement. It helps to clarify some of the other comments I've read on the forums.

I think Glen Henderson did a good job on the 356. We have sailed it for 4 years now and been very happy at anchor, motoring and especially sailing her. Our other boats have been much smaller so we can only compare the motion at anchor or on the ocean to those. Of course we find this boat much better.

I was warned when we were shopping for a boat by those that favour the more traditional designs about the dreaded "pounding" with modern sailboats designs. So far we have not experienced that at all and hope we never do.

We have sailed on the ocean beside the more traditional designed heavier boats. What I did notice was we tended to ride up the waves while they tended to go into them with lots of water going over their bow. I suppose this was because of our lighter, higher, wider hull ? I had the impression we had less motion than they did from the way they were moving about in the cockpit.

Thanks, Bob
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Old 17-12-2014, 13:13   #153
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
If you look at size and interior volumen sure its a good thing, whats the fair Price for a really good 50 footer in the market, light, strong and expensive?
New? Fully equipped and ready to use? I guess 1.2 million euros or so.

The Hallberg Rassy 54 sells for 1.1 million bare.
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Old 17-12-2014, 13:21   #154
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Seriously. This is awesome.

I'll go with RTB on this one. It's a good idea to check the explorer charts (or similar) to make sure it's actually a "secure anchorage" (without excessive swell due to surge, etc.). Then, if you still happen to get caught, it's probably good to take whatever action to reduce the problem before your people start getting launched.

As I've said before, I followed the Hunter 49 Sequitur as they made their way through many crazy anchorages near Cape Horn. They did just fine.

So, back to the sailor.
Sounds like you stay at the Holiday Inn Express instead of an anchorage.
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Old 17-12-2014, 13:23   #155
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

The bull was funny. Kind of like a Hunter at anchor, eh?

Cushions are fine, I'm sure, on this lovely BWC yacht:



Heh-heh.
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Old 17-12-2014, 13:36   #156
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

Originally Posted by neilpride
If you look at size and interior volumen sure its a good thing, whats the fair Price for a really good 50 footer in the market, light, strong and expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
New? Fully equipped and ready to use? I guess 1.2 million euros or so.

The Hallberg Rassy 54 sells for 1.1 million bare.
Since we're doing boat comparisons here, anyone know what the alternative, inexpensive, mass-produced boat might go for new, i.e. a 50' Bene/Jean/Lina/Hunter?
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Old 17-12-2014, 13:56   #157
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

Keno. I understand exactly what you mean. I've experienced it just like anyone else who has anchored their boat in anything but flat calm (all with varying degrees of discomfort based on the swell size, period, etc.).

I've never had, nor have I ever heard of, people and cushions flying all around the the cabin of the boat - with that boat coming apart if it's in anything even remotely considered a sheltered anchorage. You are the first.

That said, the video shown above illustrates that it is entirely possible to create that situation - regardless of the boat (even a long, heavy BWC boat). As I've said all along, it all depends on where the skipper chooses to anchor - and what he does when there. The boat has very little to do with that.

I assume this is closer to what you're talking about in terms of the boat and swell orientation:

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Old 17-12-2014, 14:02   #158
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Can someone else please try to explain to this fellow the anchorage situation I'm trying to get across??? Obviously, he's never spent any time at an anchorage, so he can't seem to visualize or grasp the concept.

I've been attempting... and apparently failing to explain to him how a boat (any boat) behaves when one becomes anchored parallel to the swell. This usually happens following a wind direction change or when the wind dies completely while anchored, and one is forced to basically be very uncomfortable while the boat rolls somewhat violently side to side. It has nothing to do with anchoring in storm conditions (his video) or reading a sailing "explorer chart."

I've tried.... now I give up.
Your example was clear to me.
Shifting or variable wind conditions against steady wave (swell) conditions in an anchorage (even those that are the best available, not the same as in "surf") CAN cause significant rolling, which CAN be severe when experienced in the boat. It can be dangerous if unsecured things fly across the boat, including people or if crew does not have a good handhold or braced position as the rolling happens.

Back to the issue of "blue water capable Hunters"…
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Old 17-12-2014, 14:10   #159
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Keno. I understand exactly what you mean. I've experienced it just like anyone else who has anchored their boat in anything but flat calm (all with varying degrees of discomfort based on the swell size, period, etc.).

I've never had, nor have I ever heard of, people and cushions flying all around the the cabin of the boat - with that boat coming apart if it's in anything even remotely considered a sheltered anchorage. You are the first.

That said, the video shown above illustrates that it is entirely possible to create that situation - regardless of the boat (even a long, heavy BWC boat). As I've said all along, it all depends on where the skipper chooses to anchor - and what he does when there. The boat has very little to do with that.
I don't think it was the rodeo bull Kenomac was comparing you to in the video he posted.
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Old 17-12-2014, 14:19   #160
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

As I see it, the previously linked video clip of the boat at Pitcairn Island does not illustrate or refute the point that Kenomac was making earlier.

Pitcairn does not have a protected anchorage. It is known as a place where boats are at risk anchoring close to the only area safe for landing (in small boats) on shore and that place is open to the sea (no protection, it is not a harbor). So, every boat that anchors there is subject to the ocean swell. When the Pacific swell is high, every boat there will rock and roll and pitch with the incoming swells.

That said, I would prefer to be on a strongly built boat (of any make) in those conditions.

And in a boat designed for sailing in blue water and the rough conditions one might find on the open ocean.
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Old 17-12-2014, 14:41   #161
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
As I see it, the previously linked video clip of the boat at Pitcairn Island does not illustrate or refute the point that Kenomac was making earlier.

Pitcairn does not have a protected anchorage. It is known as a place where boats are at risk anchoring close to the only area safe for landing (in small boats) on shore and that place is open to the sea (no protection, it is not a harbor). So, every boat that anchors there is subject to the ocean swell. When the Pacific swell is high, every boat there will rock and roll and pitch with the incoming swells.

That said, I would prefer to be on a strongly built boat (of any make) in those conditions.

And in a boat designed for sailing in blue water and the rough conditions one might find on the open ocean.
So in other words, if you are on passage and want to stop & anchor for awhile at remote Pitcairn Island, rolly & uncomfortable conditons may likely be unavoidable. You are unlikely to find that flat calm anchorage clueless people envision, along with that comfortable Holiday Inn Express just down the street. Seems like only a rodeo clown would be foolish enough not to be prepared for situations like this.
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Old 17-12-2014, 14:57   #162
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

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Seems like only a rodeo clown would be foolish enough not to be prepared for situations like this.
I totally agree with that. At the same time, only a rodeo clown would put himself into a situation that's that dangerous.

Now, I'm still waiting for all the others who have also been in "secure anchorages" and, like Keno, had their cushions, stuff, and people flying all over the cabin while the boat was coming apart to come into the thread and validate that claim.

I'm patient - and very intrigued.
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Old 17-12-2014, 15:21   #163
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

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So in other words, if you are on passage and want to stop & anchor for awhile at remote Pitcairn Island, rolly & uncomfortable conditons may likely be unavoidable. You are unlikely to find that flat calm anchorage clueless people envision, along with that comfortable Holiday Inn Express just down the street. Seems like only a rodeo clown would be foolish enough not to be prepared for situations like this.
Well…..

As I recall (from reading a long time ago) Fletcher Christian selected Pitcairn not only for its remoteness (it is considered one of the world's most remote islands) but also because it had such unfavorable landing conditions (no natural harbor) as that would make it unlikely that any British warship would want to land men there (e.g. to get provisions or get water etc.) as they would pass this island and go to other more suitable islands.

This is not to say that boats don't visit it and that boats don't anchor off the landing area, some do. But, it is known to be hazardous, and is not a harbor. It is simply a place where the small boats can be landed or launched, as the island has mostly steep sides (rocky coast).



Rodeo clowns would probably be offended if described as being like some internet clowns.

You folks will not know this already, but I am writing a book about Rodeo and have spent many nights at rodeos (another of my photography book projects) that gave me opportunities for close observance (backstage view so to speak) to the professional rodeo clowns and what they do. I have spoken with a number of them and generally find they do dress and do things in a foolish fashion (for entertainment) but I would not consider them idiots. The ones I met were generally funny, and courageous (as called for by their job) and often risked themselves to help a rodeo rider who was in distress. Some did what I consider "heroic" saves of other men who were getting stomped and gored by bucking bulls that tossed them (the clowns) like rag dolls. As we say in Texas, "They have COJONES!" So, I have a lot of respect for true, professional, rodeo clowns. By the way, many of the current ones prefer to be called "bull fighters" even if some still wear some clown makeup or minimal makeup. I prefer the "old school" clown outfits. I wish I could show you folks some of my photos, but I have most reserved for books and cannot put them online.
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Old 17-12-2014, 15:25   #164
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

Kenomac, where were you anchored? I can see what you are saying, if it's a very large bay, or open water.

The same can happen on the ICW, say Fernandina Beach as an example. Plenty of strong current there (and plenty of other east coast locations). Take a mooring, or anchor in places like these, and the boat will set to the current, regardless of wind direction. Not much fun if the wind kicks up. With a lot of fetch, the waves build. Too many times, they end up on the beam. Especially irritating if the mooring ball bangs on the side of your hull half the night. Also, pretty annoying taking waves on the stern, with wind against current. My topsides have taken a beating from mooring balls, pennants, and anchor chain.

One for smack- We were anchored off Redfish Island in Galveston Bay, the night before the Harvest Moon Regatta. I was on anchor watch, and the sun had set. It is not too far from the ship channel. A huge ship was making it's way south, and as it neared the island, the boat swings about 90* (because that big ship is sucking water toward it). I'm wondering what the hell is going on? A minute or two later, 3 or 4' waves (wakes from the ship) slammed us on the beam. That got everyone up on deck pretty quick! Ok, the sailor screwed up anchoring where we did. Haha, I wasn't captain, but did learn from the experience.

Anyway...there should be a video called "the wild world of anchoring".

PS- put some Velcro on the bottom of your cushions in the saloon. I have had cockpit cushions thrown onto the floor on several rolly anchorages. I've also felt weightless trying to sleep in the V-Berth, as the boat falls off waves while anchored on the Great Bahama Bank during thunderstorms. Two nights in a row.

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Old 17-12-2014, 15:26   #165
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Re: Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Originally Posted by neilpride
If you look at size and interior volumen sure its a good thing, whats the fair Price for a really good 50 footer in the market, light, strong and expensive?



Since we're doing boat comparisons here, anyone know what the alternative, inexpensive, mass-produced boat might go for new, i.e. a 50' Bene/Jean/Lina/Hunter?
Go to yachtworld insert new boat and search. Prices depend on equipment. Lower prices correspond to basic boats:

Jeanneau 509 - US$ 372,900
2015 Jeanneau 509 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 50 DS :US$ 354,900
2015 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 50 DS Sail Boat For Sale -

Bavaria 51 Cruiser :US$ 379,702
2015 Bavaria 51 Cruiser Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Hunter 50 Aft Cockpit: US$ 395,990
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2015...s#.VJIDiyuDkus
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