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Old 07-08-2013, 15:19   #16
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Re: Dangers of fueling

Much of the danger comes from the fact that many fuel systems are afterthoughts, not well engineered. In this case the vent was located such that the fumes could enter the bilge (assuming, since the boat blew at the fuel dock). Easily prevented with a better vent location, a carbon filter on the vent, vapor recovery at the fuel dock and an operable bilge blower. All of these? Belt and suspenders, since you cannot rely upon the user understanding the systems. Automotive fueling systems are pretty well engineered to be moron proof, after all.

I've actually seen tank vents in the cockpit (keeps the water out). Fills near hull openings are also WAY too common. It doesn't need to be like that.
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Old 07-08-2013, 15:25   #17
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Re: Dangers of fueling

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Originally Posted by Snkr View Post
Gas engine, I guess he did not open his vent, no insurance and at least one child got sent to Victoria, bc for 3rd degree burns.

How awful.
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Old 07-08-2013, 16:23   #18
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Re: Dangers of fueling

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
Those millions of cars filling up at gasoline stations every day are all about to explode...
Obviously there must be a difference between a boat and a car in this respect, and I am curious as to what it is. Why would a boat more readily explode than a car?

(edit)

Nevermind, I just read thinwater's post
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Old 07-08-2013, 17:48   #19
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Re: Dangers of fueling

I know someone with a classic powerboat that has no blowers. In the U.S. if the boat was built before the blower laws it is exempt from being required to have one.

The boat pictured looked like it was old enough. Don't know if Canadian laws also exempt old boats.

I don't understand one of the earlier posts about opening a vent. Who has vents that close.
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Old 16-08-2013, 14:49   #20
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

Three thoughts-In a car, any gas leaks fall on the ground, not in the bilge, and here in Florida we need to be careful that the new owner does not try to fuel his new sportfisher through a deck mounted rod holder. Swear to God, I saw it. Poured in nearly 10 gallons before the dock boy shut off the flow.Helped tow in and repair a motor yacht that blew up when the wife opened the fridge at the fuel dock. The fridge kicked on, and the auto generator started up. Stunningly, no one was hurt. She made it on deck with the cold drinks
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Old 16-08-2013, 15:57   #21
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

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... here in Florida we need to be careful that the new owner does not try to fuel his new sportfisher through a deck mounted rod holder. Swear to God, I saw it. Poured in nearly 10 gallons before the dock boy shut off the flow....
Unbelievable...

... except my company helped clean up a house where the fuel guy delivered 3000 gallons of #2 into a pipe that had been disconnected (tank removed--switched to natural gas) and not plugged. Never mind the tank only held 275 gallons and his work order said that. He just pumped until the truck was empty.

I work in the refining industry and am frequently appalled by how casually we relate to gasoline, because it is commonplace to us. Cars are safe ONLY because of 100+ years of fuel system engineering refinements we take for granted.
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Old 16-08-2013, 16:28   #22
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

This thread brings to mind an event that always cracks me up when I recall it. Back in the early 70's (or maybe late 60's) there used to be fuel barges in Coal Harbor in Vancouver BC. One night the Texaco barge blew up and burned to the water line and sank several fueling boats tied up to her.
Adjacent to Coal Harbor is one of Vancouvers real landmarks in Stanley Park called 'The Nine O'Clock Gun' which is reputed to be a cannon off Capt Vancouver's ship. It goes off automatically at precisely 9:00 pm every night.
This hugh sportfisher with a 4-5 story tuna tower wheeled up to the Chevron barge one evening with the weekend skipper manning the helm from the top of the tower. I was fueling a towboat on the other side of the barge. He tied up at precisely 9:00 pm. When the cannon went off, he took a high dive from his tuna tower helm into the water 5 stories down thinking the fuel barge had blown up. We were laughing so hard we could hardly pull him out of the water!!
That was over 50 years ago and i still laugh when I remember it... Phil
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Old 16-08-2013, 22:09   #23
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy22 View Post
Three thoughts-In a car, any gas leaks fall on the ground, not in the bilge, and here in Florida we need to be careful that the new owner does not try to fuel his new sportfisher through a deck mounted rod holder. Swear to God, I saw it. ---
I believe you. One year in Marathon a guy pulled in to a gas station with his fishing boat on a trailer and did the same thing before the smell alerted him that something was amiss.
We also had a borrowed boat pull into the marina I worked at and start to fill up with gas using the starboard filler. Only problem was the owner of the boat hadn't told his friend the starboard side was disconnected. That resulted in a LOT of fuel in the bilge. Then the guy wanted to crank it up and drive it away! We were next to the Coast Guard station and he was persuaded of the error of his ways. The boat was towed off and the problem solved in some manner doubtless involving a lot of money.
Only in Florida.
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Old 16-08-2013, 22:41   #24
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

I don't even store my outboard or Honda generator in the boat. All that stuff is on the stern rails, right next to the propane. I've got better things to do than incinerate myself or my family.
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Old 17-08-2013, 05:16   #25
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

We were approching a fuel dock in Miami when we observed everyone on the boat currently fueling were smoking, while the attendant was standing next to the boat.

My loud verbal instructions of: "No Smoking" had no reaction.

The MIL instructed: "Par Fumar" which resulted in everyone taking multiple very deep drags before they tossed their butts into the water.

There are so many boaters that are unaware of the proper fueling procedure, that the gas attendants frequently comment / praise my practice at the gas dock.

FYI

No smoking.
Systems off, including engines and blowers.
Hatches closed.
Fuel boat.
Blowers on, five minutes minimum. (I turn them on when done fueling, while paying.)
Inspect for fumes.
Start engines and leave.
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Old 17-08-2013, 05:27   #26
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

Don't forget the static hazard with cell phones too. More than once, I have had to tell someone at the filling station to shut off the phone.
Back when I used to run a twin gasser charter boat, when I came down in the morning, the very first thing I did when stepping aboard was raise the engine hatch and put my head in the bilge and take a deep whiff. If it was clear then I would open the cabin door and turn on the blower, and leave it running the entire time I was prepping my deck for customers, and then start up. All of my fuel line connections were double hose clamped.
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Old 17-08-2013, 05:41   #27
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

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Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
the very first thing I did when stepping aboard was raise the engine hatch and put my head in the bilge and take a deep whiff.
+1

The nose is THE BEST detector for gas fumes.

It is also great to inspect the engine room at every usage.
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Old 17-08-2013, 06:59   #28
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

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Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
Don't forget the static hazard with cell phones too. More than once, I have had to tell someone at the filling station to shut off the phone.
Back when I used to run a twin gasser charter boat, when I came down in the morning, the very first thing I did when stepping aboard was raise the engine hatch and put my head in the bilge and take a deep whiff. If it was clear then I would open the cabin door and turn on the blower, and leave it running the entire time I was prepping my deck for customers, and then start up. All of my fuel line connections were double hose clamped.

Cell phones have never been implicated in any fire at a filling station:
snopes.com: Cell Phone Use at Gas Pump

Fires at filling stations are on the rise, and not due to traditional reasons. Since they have happened in unusually dry weather PEI and other groups are investigating static electricity as the cause. There are 6 theories being looked at, none of the theories involve cell phones:
snopes.com: Static and Refueling Fires


At car filling stations I have seen people smoking and filling their cars with the engine running more than in the past, and the attendants either don't know or care about safety issues.
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Old 17-08-2013, 09:43   #29
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

Yes and I've heard that you can put a cigarette out in gasoline. Not something I am willing to try. Back in the day and I am still sure they do it, when refueling planes we would always hook the ground from the truck to the plane first before any other part of the operation took place. During my fire training we were taught how static electricity builds from the simple act of the fuel falling into the tanks. When I can hear the interference that emanates from my cell phone over the speakers in my vehicle, why would I take the chance of having the fumes be ignited by the charge? You go ahead and smoke while you are filling your tank, I'll move on to the next gas station.
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Old 17-08-2013, 10:03   #30
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Re: Dangers of Fueling

It was propane not gas. We had to clean glass off our boat which was parked next to it. Starting the engine ignited a propane leak.
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