Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-04-2010, 23:46   #31
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubikoop View Post
Would you have helped or would you have let this group struggle indefinitely?
I haven't read the other responses yet so I can get my own thoughts in place.

I think you are very correct to help

Whe I read that line where you were thinking about it I was thinking I would take my long red line (utility line) in the dink with me. Turns out you needed it!

I think you did very well and did the best you could in saving the day.

I hate seeing watchers watch instead of pitching in and helping. Of course some folks are new to this sailing game and instead of watching and laughing at them we should remember the errors we made early on (and I still make!)

So good on you for helping!! may we all follow your example instead of just being bystanders
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 00:41   #32
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Simple answer for me.

I think you arrived at the correct moment.

Any earlier and they would probably have told you to leave them alone

any later and they risked significant damage to other boats or to themselves due to their ineptitude.

Nobody has addressed any better way of achieving this connection in strong wind. Whilst it is difficult to really assess due to lack of knowledge of the boat performance, but in strong wind, a bows forward approach is doomed to failure unless the approach is perfect, and the crew on the foc'sle are strong and very quick. a stern first approach might have offered a better solution as the boat is easier to keep stern first into wind (a natural tendency as soon as power is applied), and you can manoeuvre slowly past the bouy whilst getting the rope into place and taking down the slack until the bow is level with the bouy. The main issue of course with this approach is if there is sufficient swinging room for the vessel to do a 180 around the bouy.
__________________

__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 00:43   #33
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
I think you were right to help and did so at a reasonable time. We've all had bad days. We've all been beginners. We've all found ourselves over our heads. You were a good mate that day, perhaps even to someone who didn't realize it, but that's not what counts. You helped secure a behemoth going wild that, if it wasn't secured, would have ended up hurting somebody or causing lots of damage. I would like to think I would have done the same.

As to finding humor in it, at least some good laughs came out of it. I would be happy to think that the people watching some of my past antics at least got some enjoyment out of it. Nothing says that I can't learn my lessons and be someone else's entertainment at the same time.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 02:36   #34
Registered User
 
bewitched's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 885
Images: 3
Video first

post on youtube

then help

It is impossible to own a boat and not make a fool of yourself once in a while. It's all part of the game .... some of my best stories are about how I stuffed up.....


and there are some real beauties......
__________________
bewitched is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 02:45   #35
Registered User
 
mintyspilot's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingway View Post
I was up my mast watching for a while and wondering if it would be kind to explain to this strangely determined person the principle behind what he was attempting.
Why not just simply ask "Would you like some help?" and see what he says?

As to the original poster, I have this to say:

I am only learning about sailing so I can offer no nautical advice, but I have been a solo pilot for more than a decade and in aviation, the reporting of incidents and accidents is standard practice, but the pilots mentioned in the incidents are never identified. It is done that way to ensure that pilots learn from the actions of others but so that the pilots involved are never stigmatised. It also encourages pilots to report incidents and to be fully honest in their disclosures. I think it is one of the best reporting systems ever devised.

In my day job I often train people to perform complex tasks. Without training they cannot possibly succeed, but I have found it is best to let them attempt and "fail" and then to explain how to succeed and to guide them through it. The learning is much more effective.

So I say to the OP, you have done the right in reporting it and you did the right in helping. There may be some debate as to whether you could have intervened earlier, but your overall actions where, IMO, correct.
__________________
mintyspilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 03:49   #36
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
Nobody has addressed any better way of achieving this connection in strong wind.
Never skippered a vessel this size, I guess a trade off between more initial inertia vs once she is going off more of a pig to deal with.

But I would have thought the obvious answer was motor up to the bouy, but instead of aiming for only the bow (a small target) look to the whole forward 1/4 as the pickup point, with plan B being amidships. and Plan C being the Stern / cockpit......requires the crew to move a bit and the skipper being not afraid of the bouy running along his waterline.........unless we are talking about a rusty steel bouy.

In bad / tricky conditions / new environment having a few goes would be normal (for me!) initially more about getting a feel for what is going on rather than any serious expectation of success.
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 05:49   #37
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbot View Post

Nobody has addressed any better way of achieving this connection in strong wind.
A bit hard because I don't know the exact bits. I take it the freeboard is high, the mooring ball low and a liine needed to be passes through the small hole in the mooring ball out of reach of a long arm. And the foredeck crew were useless.

Someone mentioned going up to it in astern and tying off at the swim platform. That way the skipper could have done it all without needing the foredeck crew.

Another way could have been to drop anchor somewhere else.

Or if it was obligitory to moor to the ball, maybe anchor just upwind and get the dink into the water and run the line. Thats involved.

or maybe this is the idea:
Drive up close to one of the boat loads of gawkers and yell: "Hey ******* Instead of sitting there laughing how about getting in your rubber duckie and giving me a hand? YOU BRAINLESS DOPE!"



In other words why not ask for help?
"Hey mate I ve tried 8 times and am no closer. Can you hop your dink and run a line?"


Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 06:16   #38
Registered User
 
cburger's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,547
Images: 1
We all have to start somewhere. When we were new to boating in the sixties, my Father and I got pulled off the water in our piece of -hit little motor boat more times than I can remember. As a young kid I was mortally emabarassed. One time we even had to have a US Coast Guard chopper dispatched, you know the old Sikorskies that used to get the astronausts, complete with the crew chief yelling down to us, prop blast, the whole nine yards. made the local Cape Cod newspaper with that one.

You never know how what you are going to do will effect people. I truly believe if my Dad was to see how his introducing me to crappy boats has morffed into the place I am now he would be proud. Looking back long ago to the days of being towed off the water I miss them and him greatly. Never miss the chance to help a stranger, you never know when it will be you.
__________________
cburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 06:52   #39
Registered User
 
fishwife's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South coast of England, moving around a bit.
Boat: Long range motor cruiser
Posts: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by cburger View Post
We all have to start somewhere. When we were new to boating in the sixties, my Father and I got pulled off the water in our piece of -hit little motor boat more times than I can remember. As a young kid I was mortally emabarassed... Snip

You never know how what you are going to do will effect people. I truly believe if my Dad was to see how his introducing me to crappy boats has morffed into the place I am now he would be proud. Looking back long ago to the days of being towed off the water I miss them and him greatly. Never miss the chance to help a stranger, you never know when it will be you.
My emphasis.

So true, we pride ourselves as being a self sufficient cruising community, or wannabee's and yet we publically laugh at those who are learning. I'd argue that an early rather than a late intervention would be welcome and save all of those people who may enter our ranks as reasonably competent sailors, from humiliation that may drive them away for ever.

P.
__________________
The message is the journey, we are sure the answer lies in the destination. But in reality, there is no station, no place to arrive at once and for all. The joy of life is the trip, and the station is a dream that constantly out distances us”. Robert Hastings, The Station
fishwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 07:00   #40
Registered User
 
BubbleHeadMd's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edgewater, MD
Boat: Coronado 25
Posts: 315
Send a message via Yahoo to BubbleHeadMd
As I read the story, and the description of the participants, I thought to myself "They'll be too proud to accept help". The answer "We've got it this time" confirmed that for me.

I would not have offered assistance until/unless they were endangering other vessels in the field. At the first refusal of assistance I would have motored back to my own vessel without any further offers unless my own vessel was in danger of contact with this gentleman.

To squash any suspicion of "smugness" or schadenfruede on my part, I'd also like to say that I would not have stared at this spectacle like an mouth breathing trodglodyte, nor would I have kicked back with a mimosa to watch the antics.

I probably would have kept an ear on the VHF for requests for help though.
__________________
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?
BubbleHeadMd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 07:14   #41
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,952
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspot Baby
Wow, how did my post deserve a shame on me?
It didn't.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 07:15   #42
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,952
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarafina
And I have gratefully taken help that was offered on the days when I was the bozo...
Exactly. And anyone who imagines that they have NEVER been the bozo is only fooling themselves.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 07:34   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: STX and Portland, until refit finished
Boat: 1999 Steel (Tom Collin's design)
Posts: 371
I wouldn't help much because I would know less about docking a 55ft boat than he does.

I'd be afraid I'd ham up somebody else's boat even more than he was. At least if he breaks it, it's his boat. I don't want to break it for him!
__________________
ViribusUnitis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 08:33   #44
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
maybe that was not a "mistake when writing" - she gets rid of them and enriches the local government in one step.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-04-2010, 08:47   #45
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,379
Well, before I get into the thread drift I will answer the original question, of course I would help. Also agree from the description of the circumstances that the timing seemed appropriate. Come in too soon and the skipper has not had time give it his best shot, too late and things could be worse. Deciding on how soon to offer help has to be a situation call, depending I think on the potential for damage and injury if the situation is allowed to continue.

Now, this skipper could have great skills and experience and just had a bad day, but from the OP it does not sound like it. Judging from the report it would seem that this person just did not have what it took to be handling the boat. He could have been in this position inadvertently. There could have been a professional captain on board who was injured or ill and not able to assist. If he was there by his own choice it appears to me he made an irresponsible decision that put others at risk.

Some say it should be excused as every one has to learn sometime. True for any skill but shouldn't learning take place under supervision or in an environment that minimizes potential for damage or injury to others? Would you excuse it if this skipper happened to crash into your boat during the maneuvers? Would we say the same for someone driving a car? Oh it's ok that this guy is all over the parking lot in his SUV but it's a big vehicle and everyone has to learn sometime?

Anyone can have a bad day. I've certainly had my share, smacked the dock more than once, fortunately never smacked another boat or injured anyone. However, when I was starting out I tried, I think successfully, to avoid situations where my inexperience would put other boats or boaters at risk.

As far as laughing at the skipper, will bet a case of beer that everyone who saw any humor in the situation has been there and will tell the story and laugh at their own gaffs. It's not a personal attack on the skipper. Ask me about the time I very publicly took out a piling in Bimini (my fault) or the one I took out in Miami (the boat's fault). It's quite OK if you laugh.
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Challenge: Wake Up The Mechanics - Outboard Challenge Ex-Calif Challenges 37 04-04-2016 09:55
Challenge: What Would You Do ? Hampus Challenges 113 01-07-2010 12:55
Some People Just Can't Be Helped Chief Engineer Engines and Propulsion Systems 5 25-05-2009 03:53
Challenge: A Real Challenge Solved by a Forum Member Soft Air Challenges 10 27-03-2009 09:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.