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Old 10-03-2010, 18:32   #46
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OK...Great answers so far...Gadgets +20..Chuck the lot +2

As far as tales of Doom...we only have a Near Mutiny as far as gadget's malfunctioning or more correctly out of range goes, and causing some duress...Young boob-tubers will get a little antsy if not properly weened prior to departure I suppose...

Some have articulated quite well that they want simple back ups for their gadgets and simple systems to repair but also want some luxury's as well...
The underlying theme is to not sweat the gadgets gone arye, but to make do as if their not an essential part of the larger scope of things which is to cruise.

This in a nut shell the whole point I was driving at...and it looks like we are all pretty much in agreement on that...

One poster said don't let the need for obtaining every bell and whistle keep you tied to the docks...This has to be a personal decision for each and every one of us and although great advice is not the point Im trying to achieve with this thread.
But rather prove there is nothing wrong with having it all on board and if it were all to go ka-poot it would not ruin our cruise to any great degree...we would adjust , deal with it and carry on...Fixing it if and when we could or not.....but not hitting the abort button because of it.

Seems like there are quit a few like minded tinkerers and scroungers out there as well, not afraid to rebuild and put to use what others have discarded...Good on Ya I say...Get the Gadgets while the gettin's good...

Still waiting for the Horror and tales of Doom though.
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Old 10-03-2010, 20:06   #47
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Plus, there are lots of boats with gasoline engines and they present a higher fire risk than most sailboats.
80% of all boat fires are electrically related and fire sinks boats quite easily. Gasoline related accidents have their numbers too so sailboats burn just as well. Fiberglass resin burns quite hot and the situation once out of control is almost impossible to put out.

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Mmmmm. Would have thought falling overboard would be higher.
I wouldn't assume folks always fall over board when they leave the boat. People don't just fall overboard without something more to the story. Around here they sink because they were overloaded (often in more way than one) in bad weather conditions and acting stupid. Fishing from small boats with stern anchors gets a fair number in our part of the world. We lost two guys last week. Old time fishermen with no PFD and cold water in rough weather isn't a good combination. One didn't swim and the other died any way. They were pulling nets and the PFD gets in the way but they never wore them in 50 years prior either. They knew what they were doing.
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Old 10-03-2010, 20:41   #48
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Old 12-03-2010, 19:54   #49
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I like my gadgets, and I'm proud of them:

We ran out of propane in a country that would not fill our US tanks, so we used the microwave to cook with for 3 weeks.

We have a watermaker,and yes it broke once, so we had to schlep water from the dock for a few weeks. That really made me appreciate that gadget when we got it fixed.

I have a breadmaker, which frees me up to go snorkeling or diving, instead of hanging around the galley for a few hours to make bread. Yes I could live without it, but it's sure nice.

And yes, we have 2 GPS units, a chartplotter, and all the othe stuff.

But we do also have a sextant & paper charts; And I respect the choices other less gadget oriented cruisers make - As long as you leave the dock and get out sailing, you're OK in my book.
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Old 16-03-2010, 14:32   #50
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I suspect that separate statistics are not kept for drownings by people who have fallen overboard while relieving themselves, but I know it does happen. Firstly, I am aware of one case of a drowned individual who was pulled out of Lake Simcoe with his fly undone and, for those on this site who may be a bit prudish, a part of his anatomy extending from it that certainly would have been consistent with urination.

Closer to home, I also know that one night while on watch alone, sailing in heavy conditions from Toronto to Presquille on Lake Ontario, I had the need to relieve myself. Rather than going below to use the head, waking my sleeping spouse and trusting the autopilot for a longer period (I was concerned about broaching in the large following seas), I made the mistake of urinating over the pushpit Actually, I should say I compounded the mistake of not wearing a safety harness/tether in those conditions by leaning over the pushpit to urinate. No, I was not washed overboard - although I came close to it. After I pulled myself back upright (one hand for the boat and one for....), I envsioned being in heavy seas, 12 miles from shore, asleep with my wife sailing towards Rochester. A mistake I have never made again.

Brad
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Old 16-03-2010, 15:24   #51
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I suspect that separate statistics are not kept for drownings by people who have fallen overboard while relieving themselves, but I know it does happen. Firstly, I am aware of one case of a drowned individual who was pulled out of Lake Simcoe with his fly undone and, for those on this site who may be a bit prudish, a part of his anatomy extending from it that certainly would have been consistent with urination.

Closer to home, I also know that one night while on watch alone, sailing in heavy conditions from Toronto to Presquille on Lake Ontario, I had the need to relieve myself. Rather than going below to use the head, waking my sleeping spouse and trusting the autopilot for a longer period (I was concerned about broaching in the large following seas), I made the mistake of urinating over the pushpit Actually, I should say I compounded the mistake of not wearing a safety harness/tether in those conditions by leaning over the pushpit to urinate. No, I was not washed overboard - although I came close to it. After I pulled myself back upright (one hand for the boat and one for....), I envsioned being in heavy seas, 12 miles from shore, asleep with my wife sailing towards Rochester. A mistake I have never made again.

Brad
Carry a large necked plastic bottle in C/pit locker( 2litre Milk or similar) for those "Special Moments" late at night on a solo watch... or link arms round lower shrouds by the mast.... but the seconds for under F6...
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Old 16-03-2010, 15:37   #52
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if it's that bad, pee in your pants in cockpit as it's the least of your problems, the last thing I'm going to do is try to stick one of my favorite body parts into the neck of a bottle while being tossed around
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Old 16-03-2010, 15:57   #53
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the last thing I'm going to do is try to stick one of my favorite body parts into the neck of a bottle while being tossed around
Once more divided by a common language
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Old 16-03-2010, 16:39   #54
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if it's that bad, pee in your pants in cockpit as it's the least of your problems, the last thing I'm going to do is try to stick one of my favorite body parts into the neck of a bottle while being tossed around
They dont make MEN like they used to...LMAO....
Splice the Mainbrace me hearties...
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Old 16-03-2010, 17:15   #55
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About 30 years ago I had a 26' Thunderbird sailboat. 4 6 v. drycell batteries in series/parallel to run the electronics (Bilge pump, running lights and an anchor light), a little alcohol stove, a head, a portable cooler and a 9.9 Johnson. Built a 8' dinghy which I towed. Anyway, a buddy and I were on a week cruise and we sailed into the dock at Roche Harbour (to get some beer I imagine, we certainly couldn't afford to pay for overnight moorage). We pulled up behind this beautiful 40 odd foot sailboat, all gleaming and shiny, and were standing admiring it when the owner came up to us. He immediately said "God, I admire you guys, you must be having a blast". We were astounded!

I now own a 40 odd footer, and although I love my boat, I understand fully what he was talking about!
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Old 17-03-2010, 13:05   #56
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Thanks bytownboy for getting us back on track (and apologies for contributing to the thread drift)..... A car salesman once said to me that once you purchase a car with with a useful accessory/feature, you will never buy another without it - ie, air conditioning, power windows, locks, cruise control, heated seats (at least in Canada) etc., etc. I suspect that what he said concerning cars, also applies to boats.

Each boat I have owned over the years has become not only larger, but more complex than the one it replaced. Frankly, I cannot now imagine setting out cruising for anything more than a short passage on a boat without refrigeration, a below deck autopilot, chartplotter, radar, depth, SSB, wind instruments, self-tailing winches, furling, anchor windlass, pressure water, water heater, watermaker, a decent stereo, dvd with television, fans, digital barometer, inverter, microwave oven, inflatable on davits, etc. This does not mean, however, that the failure of any of these systems would be a disaster. I have redundancy where practical (for example, I have both a manual and an electric windlass, large water tanks that I tend to keep full as welll as the water maker, a salt water foot pump that can be readily plumbed into the water tank as well as a pressurized system, both manual and electric bilge pumps, I carry paper as well as digital charts ( but also carry a complete back-up chartplotter and antenna, plus a fixed and a handheld gps and a plastic sextant), a mast-top wind indicator as well as wind instruments, I carry canned and freeze-dried foods, as well as having two refrigeration units.

In the final analysis, modern equipment should only add to our comfort/conveninece/safety while making a passage, it should not become a condition precedent to making or continuing a passage. Yes, there are times when I think fondly back to my folkboat with its simplicity and lack of systems. Indeed, some day I would love to have another boat like her for daysails and brief overnight cruises. But I would be lying if I claimed that I could find comfort (or a willing mate) for longer cruises in such a boat today.

Brad
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Old 17-03-2010, 13:14   #57
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You could have writen my opening threads post Brad!...

Could not have said that better..well done...Thank you!
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Old 17-03-2010, 13:18   #58
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I have a suspicion that age factors into it too. My son thinks it's great fun to sleep in his car on a cold rainy night up the wild coast where he surfs. So far he hasn't convinced me to join him but once I've got my trailer out of storage ... I may not have gained much wisdom as I've grown older but I have come to appreciate a warm, soft bed and a good meal.
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Old 17-03-2010, 13:24   #59
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What Brad said. The win is in layers of convenience/complexity - I would never turn over operation of my boat to a computer, as much as I love the things, but when one can come to may aid and relieve some tedium, it's great. In my case, I am adding embedded microprocessors that all report to a Linux server with a browser front-end, giving me increased awareness of things I too easily forget (status of the dozens of valves related to fuel tanks/filters/pumps, which water tank is selected, age of filter media, and so on). Of course, it's on a boat... and between salt water and lightning, lots can go wrong. If/when it dies, it doesn't render any of the systems useless.

I even chose a watermaker (Katadyn 40E) that, while not state-of-the art in power efficiency, can be operated by a hand-pump if all power fails.

I think things get dangerous when the tech replaces the manual methods. I cringed when reading about a famous wing sail whose only backup was clambering up to an access hole and using a bit on a power drill to turn some internal gear... or hugely complex things like the gorgeous Maltese Falcon (I don't think it can work without computer control - somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about that).

Cheers from the geeky-yet-primitive Nomadness,
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Old 17-03-2010, 21:32   #60
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Heck the backup to your toilet is a bucket.

Try telling that to the poo police!!
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