Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-03-2010, 08:33   #16
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
well, maybe not go below to mix drinks

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodhunter View Post
. I agree that boaters who rely on GPS for all navigational purposes, especially those who tie them into their auto pilots, turn the system ion and then go below to mix drinks, are going to run into trouble (and I hope it's not me).
My previous boat was the first one I owned where the nav system was integrated with the autopilot. I was singlehanding shortly after commissioning the boat, and had promised the admiral that I wouldn't relieve myself over the rail in her absence because she's convinced that I'll go overboard with my fly down and the boat will sail on without me. Of course, nature waited to call until I was running downwind in quartering seas, but I cranked the pilot up to response level three and watched for a minute to make certain it could handle the situation. Convinced that it could, I went below to avail myself of the day head, and as soon as my foulies were down around my ankles the boat began to spin madly, jibing every few seconds or so. I fought my way back up to the helm and was unable to shift the pilot into standby because the control head was out, but the pilot wouldn't let go of the wheel. After a couple more jibes it occurred to me that I could go below and cut off the pilot at the circuit breakers, thus resuming control of my vessel. The only problem at that point, now that I didn't have an autopilot, was that I had to heave to in order to finish relieving my bladder.

I discovered, when I finally made port, the problem to be a seatalk connector that had come undone because of the torque of response level three. I went through the entire system and reinforced all those connections with electrical tape--problem solved. In retrospect, however, I was glad not to have been leaning outboard with my trousers unzipped at the moment the autopilot lost control. Not only would I have gone overboard, but the boat would have come back to run me over a few times.

The moral here is simple. Good procedures--in this case using the day head while singlehanding--compensate for system failure.
__________________

__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 10:31   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 5,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post

Sitting in one spot watching the sun go up and down no mater how many boat bucks are in my wallet or not, does not do it for me...I will be board stiff within a week... I need to tinker..I need to pull strings..I need to turn screws and get my hands dirty...lets face it I need SOMTHING TO FIX....there I have said it.

Im not content to sit idle and have perfect working harmony all around me 24/7..I need come chaos every once in a while to keep me sane, to tell me there is a purpose in my life , to be of value to someone by being their hero and rescuer....mighty fixer of this or that...Save the Queen!....................or at least provide her a working something to have her hot oatmeal in the morning.

I know that feeling! Our boat wound up being so bulletproof that I fixed other people's boats. My moniker was given to me by a Mexican after I fixed a bunch of electronics for his village.
__________________

__________________
Memento,homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris.
senormechanico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 16:40   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Boat: '73 santana 22 - "Whisper"
Posts: 6
i dont know what you guys are talking about, i have spent the winter repairing EVERY aspect of my 30 something year old, new to me, boat and have enjoyed every second of it, I have never even sailed it...although i look foreward to it...alot... i need the basics before i can worry about "advanced systems"

-Gabe
__________________
santana 22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 16:51   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
My boat in the aggregate is fairly complex and some of the systems contained are complex in themselves - such as refrigeration or diesel propulsion. These are not terribly complex, but more so than say, the rigging which may have several components, but there are only a few parts and they all do the same thing more or less.

I have had a component of a complex system fail such as the clutch on the engine drive compressor of the refer system. That was easy to identify... but I didn't know if the compressor was shot of something in it was and it turned out to be the clutch with a refer mechanic figured out almost immediately.

I finally identified a loud noise I heard of unknown origin and it turned out to come from the steering system inside the pedestal. Two of the 4 bolts securing a gear mechanism had worked loose enough for the gear teeth to on two occasions jump and make a loud noise. Easy fix, dog down the bolts once I took the pedestal apart after every other part of the boat checked out.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 19:28   #20
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
I subscribe to one Albert Einstein's view:

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler"

A simple sailing boat must be a pleasure to sail - the simplicity used towards making it all about sailing rather than all about maintenance. But where some some technology can be used to make sailing easier - then why not?

I do not crave for another autopilot, but would hate to cross without a windvane ;-)

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 21:54   #21
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
This is a nice Friday Night Armchair read.

I have been on most everything from simple to complex......

I am not a minmalist by any stretch.....to me that's an ego thing....like people who crow about their eating regimen being healthy while disdaining others.....like power vs sail.

I worked as Engineer on a yacht that had redundant redundancy......The owner had way too much money....thus we had bells, whisltes and beyond....The Captain and I supervised this 6 month refit in Fort Lauderdale. The crew of guys we had were excellent....we had no prpblems with them working with each other as my job was to keep everybody out of each others way.

When we got ready to head North...the owner got the worst set of "Cold Feet" I had ever seen. He was apprehensive to the point of panic when his cell phone would not reach shore....(at the sea buoy).

We "made a deal" with him to sail North for 24 hours....kinda like a sea trial....What he didn't realize was that we were adamant about turning back immediately because we knew that the boat would probably never leave if we went back to Ft Lauderdale.

The bottom line was that all the Nav Aids....overwhelmed him......

In Scouting we had a K.I.S.M.I.F. Award.......The Captain and I have that with Oak Leaf Clusters.

There is a point, IMHO which is around 27-30 feet, that equipment on a sailboat morphs from single items to systems......therein lies the rub......increasing levels of complexity.

On a number of occasions, customers who have bought used boats are pleased to have me simplify the operation of their vessels.....I have removed some pretty wacky ideas that people have come up with.
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2010, 23:23   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
My previous boat was the first one I owned where the nav system was integrated with the autopilot. I was singlehanding shortly after commissioning the boat, and had promised the admiral that I wouldn't relieve myself over the rail in her absence because she's convinced that I'll go overboard with my fly down and the boat will sail on without me. Of course, nature waited to call until I was running downwind in quartering seas, but I cranked the pilot up to response level three and watched for a minute to make certain it could handle the situation. Convinced that it could, I went below to avail myself of the day head, and as soon as my foulies were down around my ankles the boat began to spin madly, jibing every few seconds or so. I fought my way back up to the helm and was unable to shift the pilot into standby because the control head was out, but the pilot wouldn't let go of the wheel. After a couple more jibes it occurred to me that I could go below and cut off the pilot at the circuit breakers, thus resuming control of my vessel. The only problem at that point, now that I didn't have an autopilot, was that I had to heave to in order to finish relieving my bladder.

I discovered, when I finally made port, the problem to be a seatalk connector that had come undone because of the torque of response level three. I went through the entire system and reinforced all those connections with electrical tape--problem solved. In retrospect, however, I was glad not to have been leaning outboard with my trousers unzipped at the moment the autopilot lost control. Not only would I have gone overboard, but the boat would have come back to run me over a few times.

The moral here is simple. Good procedures--in this case using the day head while singlehanding--compensate for system failure.
When the weather starts to go bad I bring up a wide mouth plastic bottle w/lid and a bucket in the cockpit.

I had a similar situation crossing the Strait in a blow. The wife was not able to deal with the waves so I dropped the reefed main and headed straight down wind and told her to just follow the waves.

BTW- Todays my graduation day. I'm a workaholic and I haven't done a damn thing for 8 years now. The A A told me to stay away from the house as much as possible, because my addiction. Now I just have to convince the wife that she's addicted too!
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2010, 11:16   #23
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
I replaced a lot of my electrical ... still got more to to do ... and in doing so I wired the new charger/inverter in and because I was living aboard got everything ready so I just had to cut the shore power, hook up the new lines and pull the old stuff out. When I disconnected the 30 amp input it had actually begun to melt the last couple of nights. It hasn't got much to do with complexity but I sure feel safer upgrading the systems complex or otherwise. The only explanation I can see for the dangerous situation was the build up of corrosion on the plug since I could only draw a max of 15 amps without blowing a fuse on the dock anyway and it was rated for 30 amp..

My lpg shutoff was flakey for a while and then seemed ok but it's quit again. I've been contemplating bypassing it and just shutting off the tank each time, since then there's nothing to break but I think the complexity of the selenoid adds saftey since there's a nice bright light on the switch that tells me if the tank is off or not.

My windlass is broken and I have thought about replacing it with a manual one, if I could find one, but it's not the electricals that have given out so a manual windlass might have suffered the same fate. It's not much fun hand pulling chain so I don't intend to try life without a windlass.

Replaced flush head with composter ... there's a big change to less complexity that I appreciate a lot.

I've got an electric coffee roaster on board and an espresso machine but if I can't use them it doesn't matter ... much. I'll probably add a honda generator to gear pile but they seem pretty dependable anyway and then I can have fresh coffee where ever I go.

Motors seem the biggest worry to me. I appreciate the comments on learning to sail into harbour and so on but where I'm spending my time on the water now the currents and reefs are everywhere. When Lynn Pardey said they navigated these waters without motor I was impressed. Unreliable winds, strong currents and sharp rocks make me very wary and nervous that my motor should fail. I'm trying to decide the best way to get my dingy and motor onto the water and tied to the boat in such an emergency in hopes that I could keep her off the rocks. I've a couple of times found there to be too little wind to fight the currents and had to start the engine until past a hazard. I've hooked up my thermostart to be sure I can quickly start the engine but it has crossed my mind that if the engine doesn't start I may not have much time to work things out. Of course sailing under light winds I give hazards a wide berth but there are some interesting waters around here. I guess keeping up on the motors matenience is the best course of action.
__________________
hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 07:40   #24
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustypirate View Post
I think that the only people that get marooned by some complex peice of high-tech gear are the ones who do not have any sort of low-tech backup.

The backup for your engine is your sailing rig, the backup for your chartplotter is paper charts, you get the idea. Heck the backup to your toilet is a bucket.

A lot of it depends on the quality of life you are willing to reduce yourself to for however long it takes to set things to rights.
Well, I would say the number one safety device is the MSD. If you look at the statistics most drownings off a sailboat are from somebody leaning over the life-lines to take a wizz or dump.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 10:39   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
If you look at the statistics most drownings off a sailboat are from somebody leaning over the life-lines to take a wizz or dump.
Can you cite those statistics?

My understanding is that zipper down drownings is largely a myth. It happens, but statistically they are insignificant relative to other causes of deaths on boats.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 11:36   #26
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
I don't have numbers for zipper down. This report from Canada shows 92% of drownings are male, 40% of all are intoxicated, the largest percentage are fishing. No mention of zippers but given the other stats it might make sense. If the zipper thing is a myth it is pervasive. I feel most at risk at that time and won't urinate over the side underway and ask that passengers don't as well.

http://www.redcross.ca/cmslib/genera...2006_04_19.pdf
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 12:08   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
I don't doubt for a minute that alcohol and fishing are involved in many drowning deaths. But I've read from a number of objective sources that drowning from peeing over the side just doesn't happen as often as is commonly 'known' on the internet and elsewhere. It's one of those urban myths. Sounds good, but there's no real data to back it up.

Usually if a guy falls overboard peeing, his buddies pick him up after laughing their asses off.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 12:34   #28
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
One of the things the study shows is that often the people dying didn't swim well and weren't wearing pfd's. It's clear that alcohol is a significant factor and I guess if you can't swim, won't wear a life preserver and are getting drunk then natural selection enters into the equation whether your zipper is down or up.
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 13:00   #29
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
And what this proves is the need for a high tech open fly notification alarm coupled with an automated MOB retrieval system Gizmo to tinker with.

Just to get the thread back on track..
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 13:47   #30
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
The autopilot in my boat bugs me but in large part I think it's because I haven't made friends with it yes. I need to adjust the compass it runs off of, tighten some fittings and go out and see if I can get it to do something sensible.
__________________

__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Land Life / Boat Life Ocean Girl Families, Kids and Pets Afloat 59 14-06-2010 03:04
Life Vests or Life Jackets sbenest Health, Safety & Related Gear 11 23-12-2009 11:05
Challenge: What Do You Do? anjou Challenges 69 16-10-2009 19:23



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.