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Old 21-07-2009, 21:37   #31
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When I used to do some solo night sails, this was my thought: On a small boat, it was impossible to have a tether short enough to stop me from going over. It didn't take much experimenting to figure out there was no way I was going to pull my way up the sides, but over the back was easy. I opted for a long tether that would allow me to go anywhere. Since it had a fat diamater, I could pull my way up it fairly easily, but knots tied every foot made it easier still, much easier I may add than a prussik and much more reliable.

Climbing gear certainly can have it's applications. I've used prussiks on my anchor line, and used to bring a couple ascenders. I think they are more versatile than grigris. I could climb the main sheet if needed, but they could also be used to gain a purchase on any taught line (as could a less expensive prussik) - an anchor line for example if your windlass fails. Retired climbing webbing - every where. Works for jacklines and later as sail ties and to tie off halyards. Also good for an inexpensive swiss seat harness. (have done that to go up the mast.)

A good technique to know that directly relates the original question:

A valuable lesson from my white water days: Pulling yourself up a rope against a current or through moving water can be very difficult and water piles up into your face making it difficult to breath. However, you can hang on a rope for a long time in a current by flipping over on your back, tucking your chin and holding the rope at your chest. The water will pile up and around your head, but your face will be in air. If I was dragging behind a boat, but someone would eventually wake up and help me, that's what I'd do. It's another reason I'm a fan of walk out transoms.
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Old 22-07-2009, 05:20   #32
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Using a harness is essential and staying onboard makes them not necessary. What you need to do is work out a strategy to get on board WITH a tether if it should be required. To simply focus on NOT ending up overboard (which is certainly important) is not what the thread is about.

Perhaps you need to provide some sort of lines hanging over the side which can assist IF you are tossed over.

If you think its easy for someone on deck to haul you aboard give that a try too, at anchor. An open transom or a drop down swim ladder would make getting aboard much easier.

Plan the way out of this emergency without the assist of other crew.
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Old 22-07-2009, 06:48   #33
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My real answer: I'd have made sure to practice MOB situations with my husband of both him and I going over to see what our strenghts and weaknesses are. Plus I'd have a very loud whistle around my neck.

My fun answer: Think to myself, "I'm such bad luck. I knew before we left the dock that something like this would happen to me".
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Old 22-07-2009, 13:32   #34
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Originally Posted by David M View Post
I am a little surprised nobody has mentioned these:

Does anyone here use them?




Raymarine Marine Electronics - LifeTag™ Wireless Man Overboard Monitoring System
That's good if you have crew? Crew was not always an option for me, so I married some crew as in Hicock's advice.Now if I can just that 4'9" 100lbs mass of muscle to wake up, and save my sorry butt......i2f
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Old 23-07-2009, 03:26   #35
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Im always sail with a 150 ft yellow line atached to a life ring towed in the stern, if i fall overboard i have a better chance to cacht the ring and back to the boat, if i miss the ring, make noise.
Sailing at 8 knots?? You won't pull yourself back on board. Try it at 2 knots. (Not that I have I hasten to point out) But read another post of someone who had. No way.

If your sailing solo and don't carry a personal epirb, you are definately living on the edge.
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Old 23-07-2009, 03:44   #36
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Kinda wish I hadnt posted this now as its been on my mind and now features in my nocturnal thoughts too.

Apart from sea sickness, does anyone else have illnesses or concerns/phobias associated with the water?
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Old 23-07-2009, 05:04   #37
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Kinda wish I hadnt posted this now as its been on my mind and now features in my nocturnal thoughts too.
Anjou:

May I suggest you cease, what I suspect you are doing: creating "gremlins" in your mind that are totally unnecessary and unrealistic.

As I stated in my earlier post "it's all about risk management", and there have been more than a few posts in this thread that support the notion that you have every reason to see the "glass half full", not "half empty".

Cruising, like any other skill, is acquired through gaining knowledge, and experience. CF is only one resource for your gaining knowledge. There are, as I'm sure you know, many published resources as well as individuals you can interact with that can assist with your acquiring more knowledge. With knowledge comes a degree of confidence, which can only be enhanced one way: by experience.

Thus, may I suggest you spend less time "thinking" and instead spend more time exploring how you might identify opportunities to "gain experience"...

William aka 'The PIRATE'
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Old 23-07-2009, 06:18   #38
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Apart from sea sickness, does anyone else have illnesses or concerns/phobias associated with the water?
Yup, being too far away from it .
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Old 23-07-2009, 06:47   #39
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Old 23-07-2009, 23:59   #40
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Another solution some locals used successfully around here -- crew on watch has small waterproof VHF securely fastened to/in pfd, VHF below deck on, both tuned to same channel. Works for "hey, come up and help me change the headsail, a squall is coming" or "BLJSDFPJAN:G:KNSKLLKNF " (sounds I would make underwater while dragging and hopefully being a ble to feel the radio and the PTT button. Nice in theory.

I do wear my EPIRB on night watch while partner sleeps, and we follow the same "no one leaves the cockpit while the other is asleep" rule, as well as "No stepping through the companion way until tether clipped to cockpit anchor, no matter what the weather." Building the habits over years so when tired or distracted, it is automatic.

Lastly, and I know this sounds sick, but we were young -- one summer in BC we purposefully played with this scenario, and granted, we were young and agile and unhurt, but we figured out ways to do what someone else mentioned, wrapping the tether under your armpit to get the pull to come from the back vs the chest, and were able to drag in a way that let us turn head and get gasps of air for awhile. It worked for a bit and was very taxing and painful, but gives some room to scream (sorta) and pound the hull.
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Old 24-07-2009, 00:39   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
I am a little surprised nobody has mentioned these:

Does anyone here use them?




Raymarine Marine Electronics - LifeTag™ Wireless Man Overboard Monitoring System
Yup, though never in reality, only in drills. Any crew that can sleep through the alarm is already dead.

I've never gone off my boat in an accident, but I've water skied enough to know that if I go off at anything over about 5 knots, there's no way I can counter that resistance and get back on board by myself.

Like others have said: When underway (1) No one outside the cockpit without someone else in the cockpit. (2) Anyone outside the cockpit is tethered. (3) Jacklines run inboard, all harness/tethers measured such that the harness will not go outboard of the lifelines. (4) When offshore, all crew (and dog) wear Lifetags. (5) At night, solo watch also has Horizon VHF/GPS handheld (with strobe) securely attached to PFD.

The idea is that if the unthinkable should happen despite all precautions, then the plan is for the Lifetag to go off, a MOB waypoint automatically is set on the E120, crew awakens, hopefully the person in the water is conscious and can radio to the now awakened crew who can then also spot the strobe, in addition to getting verbal instructions from the MOB.

I still don't want to test it, though.

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Old 24-07-2009, 02:07   #42
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I've been overboard .... in fact I went over the side 3 times in one racing season. No harness, no lifelines, no tethers. This was a race boat ... a harbour racer, one design class boat, very competitive crews, very close racing .... no lifelines at all. I was the forward hand and my job (among other things) was to be on the bow doing whatever needed to be done * no matter what the weather.

One of the dunkings doesn't count because we hadn't left the marina yet (don't ask!!!) but for the other two dunkings I (luckily) never lost contact with the boat.

Part of my job was to assist the mastman to hoist the spinnaker and while I was tailing the halyard, he gave an almighty heave and I ended up pitching gracefully over the side while still holding on to the spin. halyard. When I surfaced the boats movement brought me right up against the hull at about the same area as the leeward trimmer (a BIG guy). He reached out, grabbed me by the back of my wet weather trou and hauled me back on board while growling "This is no time to go swimming". The mastman never realised I'd been over the side. It all happened very quickly.

The second time the foredeck disappeared from underneath me during a race in heavy weather and I ended up over the leeward side, grabbing a spinnaker sheet on the way over. Once again the forward motion of the boat brought me straight into the topsides and with the momentum of swinging into the hull I hooked a leg over the toerail and hauled myself on board straight away. Adrenaline helps tremendously! Most of the crew (including the skipper) didn't realise I'd taken a swim that time.

Both incidents taught me to a) stay on the boat and b) that if tethered you will be brought up against the topsides. Adrenaline definitely helps but I don't ever want to have to rely on it. Rule #1 = stay on the boat. Rule #2 = stay on the boat. Rule #3 = stay on the g8ddam boat!


* Having lost a spin. halyard I once climbed barefoot up the forestay unassisted using the headsail hanks as footholds on an upwind leg to retrieve the halyard with the skipper yelling at me to hurry the hell up because we'd dropped 1/2 a knot because of my windage up the mast. The things we do when we're young, keen and stupid!!
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Old 24-07-2009, 02:57   #43
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I've been overboard .... in fact I went over the side 3 times in one racing season. No harness, no lifelines, no tethers. This was a race boat ... a harbour racer, one design class boat, very competitive crews, very close racing .... no lifelines at all. I was the forward hand and my job (among other things) was to be on the bow doing whatever needed to be done * no matter what the weather.

One of the dunkings doesn't count because we hadn't left the marina yet (don't ask!!!) but for the other two dunkings I (luckily) never lost contact with the boat.

Part of my job was to assist the mastman to hoist the spinnaker and while I was tailing the halyard, he gave an almighty heave and I ended up pitching gracefully over the side while still holding on to the spin. halyard. When I surfaced the boats movement brought me right up against the hull at about the same area as the leeward trimmer (a BIG guy). He reached out, grabbed me by the back of my wet weather trou and hauled me back on board while growling "This is no time to go swimming". The mastman never realised I'd been over the side. It all happened very quickly.

The second time the foredeck disappeared from underneath me during a race in heavy weather and I ended up over the leeward side, grabbing a spinnaker sheet on the way over. Once again the forward motion of the boat brought me straight into the topsides and with the momentum of swinging into the hull I hooked a leg over the toerail and hauled myself on board straight away. Adrenaline helps tremendously! Most of the crew (including the skipper) didn't realise I'd taken a swim that time.

Both incidents taught me to a) stay on the boat and b) that if tethered you will be brought up against the topsides. Adrenaline definitely helps but I don't ever want to have to rely on it. Rule #1 = stay on the boat. Rule #2 = stay on the boat. Rule #3 = stay on the g8ddam boat!


* Having lost a spin. halyard I once climbed barefoot up the forestay unassisted using the headsail hanks as footholds on an upwind leg to retrieve the halyard with the skipper yelling at me to hurry the hell up because we'd dropped 1/2 a knot because of my windage up the mast. The things we do when we're young, keen and stupid!!
Makes total sense, logically or otherwise, to me
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Old 24-07-2009, 07:41   #44
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He reached out, grabbed me by the back of my wet weather trou and hauled me back on board while growling "This is no time to go swimming".
Knowazark what a cool story and great sailing experience, my kind of sailors!

Windsaloft that is the best darn idea - a waterproof VHF strapped to the PFD/harness. Great for offshore, nothing wakes me up faster than the VHF sounding off after staying silent for so long. You can wire the VHF into the stereo speakers to increase the likelihood of being heard too.
Cheers,
Erika
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Old 24-07-2009, 18:17   #45
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Rule #1 = stay on the boat. Rule #2 = stay on the boat. Rule #3 = stay on the g8ddam boat!
Often we expect things to be more complicated and look for complexity when there is none. The obvious isn't always the right answer. This time it really is.

People that go overboard don't really intend on it and didn't think they would at the very moment they did. This idea that "Oh this does not seem risky and I can handle this attitude really does not work". It's what they all say just before they splash.

It would be different if you just flew clean over the side and splashed. Being caught up in the line lines and dragged upside down, smacked on the head or being hit by the boat just seem to be part of the deal. As for a low boom - one in the head and your dead seems to fit enough as well. Safety is a process not just a PFD. The PFD is just the easiest part and not to be overlooked. It's easy to suddenly have something happen. You'll never know just before it happens - or it wouldn't.
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