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Old 06-06-2010, 23:52   #151
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Back to original topic

Arguing about the definition of Luxury and in what context is not germane to the original topic of this thread, nor is the question of whether a Cal25 is a 'bluewater' boat.

As I see it the question we should be addressing is what would be a somewhat reasonable boat that the OP could acquire and outfit on a very limited budget to go offshore.

Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yup. But we are not discussing village people in India or Russia buying a Cal25, are we.

All is relative if we want it to appear relative. But a Cal25 does not behave like a luxury good in Western economy, which is the setting for our discussion.

A Mercedes is, even though it is something we need to commute.

Goods which behave in the luxury way in the market are the expensive alternatives to the everyday things. Pairs: Mercedes - bike, Hallberg-Rassy - Cal25.

Calling a Cal25 a luxury good is OK only as much as it is to call it a "blue water" boat - especially the 5 or 10k sample.


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Old 07-06-2010, 00:17   #152
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G'Day all,

As to Dave Martin and his Cal 25 -- when we met them in NZed, we talked a lot about his boat and his voyaging. He mentioned that despite some beefing up before he left, tbe boat was falling apart by the time he got to the UK. Once there, he had a major job of repair and reinforcing to do. When he was done, the boat was heavier, stronger and a bit smaller inside! He and Zsa Zsa were intrepid, young and skillful, and we were very glad when they finished their circumnavigation... along with the children that kept popping up!

The point of this is that small and lightly built boats are not really suitable for the proposed circumnavigation, no matter what the armchair experts say.


Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Fame Cove, NSW, Oz

Jim and Ann
s/v Insatiable back in MBTBC marina, waiting for next eye jobs to be done
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:07   #153

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"But a Cal25 does not behave like a luxury good in Western economy, "
Ask the guy whose SO is looking at the bills for the boat, the yard, the dockage, and eyeing the college fund for the kids or the next mortgage payment.
Yeah, even here in the rich West, even something as small and old as a Cal25, is still a luxury for many people. A small luxury, but then again, so is dropping $100 for a good steak dinner--for many. Cal25? Or a major medical policy?

"In 2007, the "real" (adjusted for inflation) median annual household income rose 1.3% to $50,233.00 according to the Census Bureau.[4] "
Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or as we sometimes say "Don't laugh at my car, it's PAID FOR."
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:54   #154
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Does anybody have any suggestions on inexpensive boats to buy and how to upgrade them to make something mildly suitable for offshore?
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:40   #155
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Originally Posted by jbosborn View Post
I need a break from teaching and I want to sail around the world. The challenge: I have only $15,000 cash saved up...
The beauty of your strategy is that it can be a whole lot more probable than planning to save for XX years while you amass a quarter million dollar cruising budget – most of these never happen, it just takes the skipper half a life time to admit it out loud (ask me how I know…). Assuming you’re not a complete crack-pot, and I’d guess anyone who can teach mathematics at any level has some fully functional logic-circuits somewhere, you must have already factored in the notion that this venture will not be just Spartan or austere, but might border on truly ascetic…

Nonetheless, you’ll need a bit of good fortune, and if you aren’t a scrounger now, you will be one before you cast off, or else you’ll be casting off with very little in the kitty or not having taken care of some basic safety items that shouldn’t be compromised. But… with a bit of shopping, low-end boats can be astonishingly inexpensive to purchase, sometimes free, but as one can readily deduce, the likelihood that it will need considerable and careful attention to detail in many areas goes without saying… forget a sewing machine to mend sails, you’ll be using a palm and needles and as others have pointed out the $250 GPSs won’t be yours, you’ll be getting along with a $50 or less one (used – but, mine works just fine…). Bottom line is your adventure starts the minute you commit, not the minute you cast off…

I congratulate you… My guess is, human endeavors being what they are, you’ll find both a way and the means to overshoot your budget by a little, and you won’t be tying up at many yachtie clubs or transiting costly canals, but regardless of how far you get, you’ll be living it rather than dreamin’ it…

The very best of luck to you…!!!

Worry: misuse of imagination…
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Old 08-06-2010, 16:10   #156
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15k - how to for the dumb, (but, WHY?)

I think the way to sail off on the cheap is first by learning a lot so that one does not have to buy services where she or he can do things themselves (haul-out, rigging, sails, engine repair, to name a few).

Decide on what minimum size of a boat gives you the acceptable minimum of comfort for the planned voyage. Then buy a sound and clean sample of the safest boat in this size (go for safety first - because you may be buying a small boat which is intrinsically unsafe) and one that gives you the max of load carrying capacity (the whys explained below). Buy a sound and clean sample, avoid works at this stage - you want to sail off, not become a project manager. Buy it in a place where it is cheap to keep the boat while you are getting ready.

Then prep & equip the boat - KISS. Keep it very KISS. Very, VERY KISS. The less stuff you drag along, the more space left for food and water. Simplicity is the poor sailor's mantra.

Then comes wise provisioning (buy staple food in cheap places, use it in the expensive ones), wise choice of the route (avoid places with a lot of red tape and few anchorages).

Then cut off the ties. Stick to anchorages. Cook your own food. Avoid places with bad weather and countries with bad people.

I think going far and wide at 15k is next to impossible. Would be very difficult for me (yes I do have some experience in going on the cheap). BUT next to impossible IS NOT impossible.

Unfortunately, some things in the plan are contradictory - e.g. a big boat vs. low price, or a small boat vs. good load carrying capacity. Try to find the right balance. Contradictory yes impossible not.

To anybody in the US I think it makes a lot of sense to buy on the West Coast where from one can venture off into the Pacific. On a long cruise I think the Pacific is cheaper than the Atlantic.

My two cents (pun intended),
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Old 08-06-2010, 16:41   #157
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Lol... yeah... sail 5000 miles and your still in the US.....
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Old 08-06-2010, 16:59   #158
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Sounds fun... But make sure to do it right is all I can say. I myself just returned from a half a year sail from California to Nicaragua on a budget as well just a week ago. Oh, and with little experience to boot; but my sailing partner had a few years experience so that helped. I had the hunger as you and the last 6 months of my life have been the most important thus far. So many amazing and wonderful things happened along the way, but also so many near death experiences as well; because of a budget and small amount of sailing hours logged. I have learned so, so much and like I said they were the most important 6 months of my life; but, now that I have some sailing experience I look back I would not do it again the way we did for it was foolish. I learned that there is no such thing as a master sailor, but there is such a thing as sailing experience. Mother nature can be very cranky at times and no one can predict %100 how she will react on any given day to a tee.
Oh, then when you are on a strict budget that dramatically declines in a rate that was unpredicted and you get stuck in a 3rd world searching for parts when the 20th thing breaks, then what do you do?:
You go from a budget to close to broke in a 3rd world... ha.. Oh, if the same happens to you while in El Salvador then make sure you at least eat a little El Salvadorian treat called Papusa; its the best.. And avoid getting your head chopped off while in Mexico or central America; that would be a bummer.. Being on a budget and single handed you will more then likely need to anchor for the most part, for a SLIP wont be your option.... Solo down there can be a bit sketchy...
Awwww, life at sea.....
I am not saying not to go for it, just to make sure you look at as many variables as you can; even though its almost impossible to do so or at least very hard on a budget.

So, be careful and think it all out as well as you can.. Oh, and PLEASE, if you do this get a reliable sea anchor!!! We had our rudder break off half way through the Sea Of Cortez during some angry seas and if it wasn't for our sea anchor then I would not of celebrated my 38th birthday a few days ago alive and well back home on the east coast. Oh, and a good chart plotter, wind vein or auto pilot (we had neither), HAM radio w/ weather fax, a SSB radio (at least a receiver), solid rigging, a radar reflector, a ditch bag, some above average spanish, a whole bunch of jerry jugs and the list goes one and on...... And the money gets lower and lower and lower............
Oh and most importantly:
Listen to the old timers (wether it be a male or female) and listen to them well.. Not someone in your shoes just looking for an adventure; someone who has been there, done that.. We did a bit, but we also were in such a need for change that we ignored some peoples concerns at first when I wished we had. But, then again we did it and are alive and well... But, then again we could of been the luckiest two people on the planet.. ha

2,500+ miles on a 30ft, 1975, Clipper Marine that was refurbished on a budget with a small amount of sailing experience to boot. Now was that luck or destiny?

Here, watch a video i made of our crossing the Sea of Cortez just so you see what can happen once you leave and then imagine it happening to you while sailing single handed with little experience:

So, long story short:
SAILING IS ONE OF THE MOST AMZING THING I HAVE EVER DONE and trust me I have done allot of wild things. But, for me, i am re-grouping, hitting the work place once again, saving my money for the next half a decade and then I will be sailing once again; but not on a whim or a small budget..

Good luck,be wise and think everything through as best as you can...
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Old 10-08-2010, 23:10   #159
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There's a Westerly Cirrus fin keel 22' on E-bay on the West coast . I owned one for ten years and wasn't afraid to go out in it. I miss it. Loyd's certified and has lots of new gear. that plus a Dana or Flicka would be my choice for a blue water pcket cruiser.
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:17   #160
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Originally Posted by Foehsel View Post
Sounds fun... But make sure to do it right is all I can say ...

... SAILING IS ONE OF THE MOST AMZING THING I HAVE EVER DONE and trust me I have done allot of wild things. But, for me, i am re-grouping, hitting the work place once again, saving my money for the next half a decade and then I will be sailing once again; but not on a whim or a small budget..
Good luck,be wise and think everything through as best as you can...
Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Andy.

Thanks for the informed (good) advice.
Gord May
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:39   #161
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good luck . you'll need it.

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:49   #162
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OK, I stopped the torture at page six. Only a couple have alluded to what seems the only reasonable resolution. I would have been very confident, at age 24, that with an (inflation adjusted) 15K, I could have sailed around the world. The caveat is that it would have to happen on other people's boats. Unpaid crew, chipping in for food and having enough left for a beer and a visit to a pyramid or two. There's no reason to even discuss the possibility of buying, maintaining and transiting a vessel to boot, on that budget. And Slocum spent years, if I recall, building Spray from the bones of what was once a vessel that could actually float. I don't think that's an option here.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:56   #163
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First of all - congrats on your dream and having the balls to even have it. That is step one. My husband and I are shoving off on our own adventure leaving in about a month....very intense, very cool....and (this is the kicker) so far, it has been VERY, 4x what we thought it would be....(we are first time boat owners, but life-long sailors meaning, we never wrote the checks until now, and holy hell are we writing checks!!)

While 15K is a nice chunk of change - you seriously cannot imagine the cost of all things "boat". For example, a small shackle that you might guess is worth $10-$15 - is actually worth $53. Paper charts are about $100 per area (you'll need a BUNCH of these). The cost of sails will make you want to guage your eyes out. And then you figure all the safety stuff and spares - it all goes up from there...line, rigging, instruments (though, being on a shoestring you might not need/want these - especially if you are a math person, paper charts and a sextant might be fine for you if you know how to navigate)....

If you are spending $5K on a boat, it also will most likely not be "seaworthy" and will need a lot of work/replacements/repairs (ours was in almost 'bristol' condition - and even still we have put a LOT into her just to make her stronger and beefier to be safe on the ocean). Safety should be your #1 priority (in my opinion). Fixing up a boat - even if you DIY is not cheap. Projects seem to multiply in a fibonacci-like sequence - trust me - I am in the midst of this right now...

I am sure it can be done, after all - where there is a will there is a way! But I'm not sure it would be much "fun" scraping by as you would be (or safe, for that matter). But perhaps you are looking for a more "into the wild" type of experience? I echo the sentiments of either having someone crew with you or crewing on someone elses boat. Or, just livaboard and cruise around Mexico for a year or two - lots of people enjoy that - and THAT would be cheap(er). Just a suggestion judging from my experience outfitting my boat for offshore. I'm friggin burning dollars over here like, well, I won't get political !

Totally worth it though.

You'll find a way. Just be safe and smart about it.

Good luck,
A young couple and a baby, sailing around the world. Join us!
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Old 16-09-2010, 16:34   #164
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Standing Rigging.. use galvanised wire and clamps.. twice as strong, flexible and a lot cheaper than the fancy swaged SS beloved of yachties. Easy to get anywhere in the world... same with shackles etc.. your on a budget boat round the world not heading for the Southampton Boatshow.
Running Rigging.. forget the fancy multi coloured multiplait and go for basic 3 plait cord.. once again available worldwide.
Navigation/Charts... many people will be happy to let you photocopy theirs, also you'll find as you travel, postings of used charts/pilot books for sale cheap by folks heading the opposite way... free exchanges are common in most stop offs... along with book swops.
Two H/H GPS's are all you need with your paper chart.. forget the fancy crap... all you need is your position once or twice a day for course checks when crossing, Coasting..? thats when you use your eyes...
Sails.. carry a comprehensive repair kit, needles and sailmakers palm, ripstop tape and some 5oz sailcloth and learn to x stitch.. enough to replace at least your biggest panel... unlikely but **** happens.

OK... what else... oh yeah... live like a skip rat...
Fenders.... old scooters tyres make great budget fenders, sew up canvas bags to stick em in to save the black rubbing of onto your hull n bobs yer uncle.
Need anymore... gimme a shout
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Old 23-09-2010, 14:29   #165
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Did anyone actually look at that site he posted a few pages back?
If not...PLEASE do! Here it is again.

WOW! Did you even read any of that before posting it? If so, please tell me it was a joke. If not, just get the boat and leave now. I really feel sorry for your students.

There's a few legitimate (I use that term loosely) low paying jobs, that I could see you easily getting while cruising, but otherwise...

Nothing but a list of skilled trades, that you would already know about if you had that skill in the first place. Not to mention jobs that would require school, training, local knowledge, etc.

Scuba instructor! That's GREAT advice for readers who may not even be certified divers. Any idea how much money and time it takes to become an instructor.
Web master, mechanic, day trader, etc.

Personally I think I'm going to be a model, travel photographer, gambler. If I find me an admiral she can be a stripper, drug dealer, movie extra. And if things don't work out as planned we can bother just become professional scam artists!

And yes, all those things are really on the list on that site!

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