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Old 26-04-2010, 13:33   #136
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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Have not been to the US, but can see boat prices / spare parts / equipment prices as well as food prices there - can't quite see where it could be any cheaper than in the US.

Probably look for a way to cut the nasty costs (slip?) and just try to take advantage of what the US can offer in the way of buying/fixing/provisioning, only then sail away.

Remember when you are out of your country you immediately become a walking wallet. In your own country at least you speak your own language - so you will have a way with the good people and sense when the mean ones might try to cheat you.

barnie
Ah, crap! I thought the seas would be full of smiling, honest-to-a-fault shipwrights and mechanics. Hey, I was dabbling at being romantic. OK, feet on the ground (for now) and proceed with the plan to get aboard and sail away shipshape.
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Old 26-04-2010, 14:23   #137
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Since the OP is listed as being in California I would suggest searching out small rivers and harbors where fishing boats/fleets work. You might find boatyards there hidden in the trees and swamps that have not been "raided" by various hyper eco-conscious bureaucrats. Rates and work rules would be more conducive to a budget wallet. For sure around the Gulf of Mexico coastline there are more than a few "swamps" with old boatyards where you can store and work on a boat for minimal costs. Same with the east coast especially in Georgia and South Carolina. Lot of swamps there. But these involve re-locating away from high density populations and subsequently lower job opportunities for earning money.
- - But working and living in the "home country" certainly equates to some significant savings in language and customs. Walmarts, Home Depot, and tons of RV dealers/part stores have significantly lower prices on the same marine item than West Marine or your local fishing/boat stores. Sure you might have to drive 5, 20 or 50 miles to the stores in your car and use maybe $10 worth of gasoline, but that sure beats $150 in FedEx and customs charges for shipping a part into the little 3rd world country.
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Old 03-06-2010, 23:47   #138
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The trick is finding a decent boat for $5k-ish, leaving you $5k to outfit and the balance to live on for a year which would be very spartan but not impossible. You are not going to go around in a year.

I would look at a Cal28, or a Pearson Triton, both have headroom for anyone under 6' and will cost $4-8k in OK shape with the Triton possibly a bit higher on average than the Cal.

Cal advantages
a)raised deck giving great volume below for a 28' boat.
b)quarter berths maximising use of space
c) probably a bit faster
d) probably has outboard freeing storage space under cockpit.
e) Masthead rig

Triton Advantages
a) Somewhat heavier hull construction
b) better motion and easier steering at sea
c) Probably has inboard engine giving better motoring performance in waves. Normally the inboard would be more reliable than the outboard too but the Triton is likely to have a 40-50 yr old Atomic 4 vs the 0-20yr old outboard on the Cal.
d) reccommendation from Dan Spurr for offshore work (Pearson Triton Sailboat)

Among the big things to check before buying is that none of the bulkheads are rotted out. Some delamination of the deck core can be repaired. Once you have the boat you will want to glass over the hull-deck joint. Also you will want to replace the rigging. Sta-loc or Norseman terminals are the quickest and best way to do the work and preserve resale value. Cheaper is to learn to splice eyes and do it yourself using 7x7 wire. See Brion Toss's The Rigger's apprentice.

Specific to most Cal boats you would want to make sure the steel beam under the compression post has not rusted thru. This beam may be buried under the liner so checking may be difficult. The beam is one more thing to check on Cal's but they do a better job of supporting the mast. See how one owner replaced the beam at
Wilkie's Sailboat Page

Consider adding built-in water tanks, more storage for the volume occupied and in the event of a holing thru the hull into the tank, the boat doesn't try to sink, the tank already had water in it, you just can't drink it now.

Consider adding a removable inner forestay for a staysail. More sail area in light conditions, better balance in heavy conditions, staysail not as far foreward in heavy conditions, extra rigging gives the whole mast better support.

You will need 3 anchors:
A) main is a 25# plow/CQR or Claw/Bruce on 100-150' 1/4" chain & 200-300' 9/16" nylon 3-strand rope with bow roller and chain pawl (allows you to go without a windlass),
B) backup is a 15-18# Danforth type anchor on 30' chain and 250-350' of rope and an oversized cleat; and
C) stern/kedge anchor is a 10# plow or Bruce on 15' of 3/16" chain and 150-200' 7/16" rope.
D) If you are feeling flush get a 40-50# fisherman/herreschoff/Luke with same rode as B) for difficult rock and kelp situations.
If you wind up in the Pacific islands you may want to consider taking some polypropylene rope as it floats and which keeps it away from coral, on the other hand it is weaker and more UV sensitive than nylon so it needs to be oversized.
A lot of the anchor stuff you might be able to pick up at swap meets if you attend early and stay late. This will save a lot. Some of the new anchors are getting better reps than the Bruce or CQR but have not hit the 2nd hand market yet.

You will need to a small hard dinghy with oars, building one may be the economical answer if you have a place to do the work.

You will need to build a selfsteering windvane. There is a recent book that includes plans or checkout
http://www.mindspring.com/~waltmur/Self-Steering/

You may want to seal some of the storage compartments in the boat using waterproof hatches for access. This will provide floatation in the case of holing. This is discussed at
Atom Voyages | Sailing and Boat Project* Articles by James Baldwin

Make sure you have a drifter, being able to continue sailing in light air really saves on fuel. If the main is in good shape all's it probably needs is a 3rd reef. Decent sails can be had from used sail dealers.

For the Cal an outboard of 4hp would push you at 4-5kt in calm water, 6hp would get you to hull speed in a calm, 8hp would get you hull speed with 12-18kt wind or waves against you, over 10hp is a waste of fuel and extra weight in the stern since it won't push you any faster in a calm and in winds heavier than 18 or so the prop is going to start coming out of the water. Outboard has to be a 4-stroke, almost twice the fuel milage of a 2-stroke and a lot less pollution.

For the Triton, get an engine manual.

You will need a solar panel or 2, preferably on a good mount, see above Atomvoyages for one idea. 2 or 3 new group 27 flooded batteries or a pair or 2 of new 6v golf cart batteries from a 2nd tier supplier would probably be adaquate if usage is limited. Evans Starzinger has intersting things to say about batteries at
Systems.

To conserve battery power you want flourescent fixtures in the cabin, 1 or 2 in main & 1 in v-berth. Incadescents can remain in head and berths. You will want a single bulb Tricolor fixture at the masthead for sailing. At anchor get a LED fixture should go with the anchor ball. (Bebi Electronics-Home of the Finest Marine LED Lighting Products on Sea (or Earth)! is one source that I have heard decent things about.) If motoring and the outboard has a generator/alternator the existing incanscents are fine, otherwise consider replacing with LED.
Limiting the amount of electronics on the boat will help with battery conservation, deptho (make a backup lead line), speedo, simple mounted GPS (no chart plotter with color screen needing be backlit all the time), VHF, shortwave, and maybe a stero/CD player are about all you need. You will need a fan or 2 and if you locate them right they can do double duty blowing both over berths and thru the social areas of the main cabin. If you really need a computer, get one of the netbooks, they are optimized for low power draw to stretch their batteries as far as possible.

Convert the Icebox to shelves or drawers for storage. Same with the hanging locker across from head.

Read the Lin & Larry Pardey Books SelfSufficient Sailor, CapableCruiser and CostConsciousCruiser.
Read Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small income
Read Beth Leonard's Voyager's Handbook
Read lots more

This is a start
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Old 04-06-2010, 00:39   #139
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EPIRB:$450
BOAT: $5000
GPS: $50
SEXTANT: DAVIS MARK 3 $75
OUTBOARD: $1000
CHARTS: $200
FOOD: 1 year (you sail fast and nonstop) $2000
FISHING GEAR: $100
ENTRY AND EXIT FEES: $2000
SELF RESCUE DINGHY: $500
SPARES, TOOLS, MAINTENANCE: $1000
PANAMA: $700
SUEZ: $500
COOKING FUEL: $200

This is assuming absolute minimum size boat, minimum expenses, basically everything at a total minimum.

$ 133775 with everything at the borderline absurd minimum end of the range. More realistically you could do it with 25k. This would make it easy to just squeak by.

Of course you could be like this guy: Atom Voyages | Articles by James Baldwin: A Law Unto Himself - Kris Larson Sailing his Steel Junk

You would be able to sail around the world on $10,000 if you were this guy!

It's not about the money. If you want to do it, do it, you will find a way, even if it means getting an under the table job for a year in some foreign harbor, a couple of times.
Exactly what I was thinking. In fact I was going to go look for the link to the Kris Larson story but you beat me to it. He is the kind of guy I love to meet some day.

This thread reminds me of a famous quote by Sterling Hayden:

"To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea... "cruising" it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about."
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Old 05-06-2010, 17:11   #140
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Well, I do not think a 5k boat can be brought to ocean ready for another 5k bar some sort of an extremely old, small and well preserved micro cruiser, perhaps.

The cheapest I have seen a decent boat recently was a 15k for a boat that I think maybe one could try to bid 10 and with another 10 a very able and skilled sailor possibly maybe could get her good enough.

I would also like to point out to someone above that 'sailing fast and nonstop' (to allow for the 2000 food budget) is not likely in a 5k boat. A 5k boat will be small, if she is good shape and WILL sail slow. And sailing that small a boat nonstop ... well.

b.

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Old 05-06-2010, 23:15   #141
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Old 06-06-2010, 00:22   #142
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In the mid-90's Ed Hart took his time and got a Cascade 29 ready for a circumnavigation for $10k.
In the early 90's Dave Martin got a Cal25 ready for about $15k.

It takes a lot of time and motivation to do that sort of thing, not a lucky find of a boat.

I agree that the OP isn't going to go around on the remaining $5k.
I could see him puttering around SoCal and Sea of Cortez getting some experience, then going to Hawai'i, refitting as fast as possible before going up to the Northwest, maybe circumnavigating Vancouver Is., and finally returning to SoCal. He would probably need to work some along the way, but by staying in or near the US that would be easier and probably more lucrative.

Quote:
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Well, I do not think a 5k boat can be brought to ocean ready for another 5k bar some sort of an extremely old, small and well preserved micro cruiser, perhaps.

I would also like to point out to someone above that 'sailing fast and nonstop' (to allow for the 2000 food budget) is not likely in a 5k boat. A 5k boat will be small, if she is good shape and WILL sail slow. And sailing that small a boat nonstop ... well.

b.

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Old 06-06-2010, 02:23   #143
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In the mid-90's Cascade 29 ready for a circumnavigation for $10k.
In the early 90's Dave Martin got a Cal25 ready for about $15k.
Have a look at an inflation calculator and tell me how much $10k and $15k are now.


http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/


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Old 06-06-2010, 03:08   #144
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I think I'd try to get the Albin Vega for $10K or less. It looks about ready to go, leaving a balance of $5K for the cruising kitty.
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Old 06-06-2010, 06:33   #145
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Have a look at an inflation calculator and tell me how much $10k and $15k are now.


http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/


Mark
Remember that the recession is depressing the prices of "Luxury" goods such as sailboats and putting a lot more of them on the market further depressing prices. Also it's putting a lot more equipement on the second hand market
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:17   #146
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Remember that the recession is depressing the prices of "Luxury" goods such as sailboats and putting a lot more of them on the market further depressing prices. Also it's putting a lot more equipement on the second hand market
A brand new Valiant 50 is a luxury good.

A Cal25 is a luxury good?

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Old 06-06-2010, 12:29   #147
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Remember that the recession is depressing the prices
Over the 20 years vicissitudes will have taken care of any perceived fluctuation.
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Old 06-06-2010, 13:22   #148
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A brand new Valiant 50 is a luxury good.

A Cal25 is a luxury good?

b.
I did put "Luxury" in quotes. A Cal 25 would not be a necessity like a car, food, shelter, or work clothes are for most people, hence it falls into the catagory of 'disposable expense' for most people.
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Old 06-06-2010, 13:32   #149

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"A Cal25 is a luxury good?"

Yup. Any "recreational" goods, any recreational expenses, any recreational TIME is a luxury that much of the world simply cannot afford.

Anyone who doesn't think so, just isn't aware of how rich they already are. No matter how much richer the folks across the way are.

It is all relative. But if you don't NEED something to live? That's a luxury item.
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Old 06-06-2010, 18:03   #150
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"A Cal25 is a luxury good?"

Yup. Any "recreational" goods, any recreational expenses, any recreational TIME is a luxury that much of the world simply cannot afford.

Anyone who doesn't think so, just isn't aware of how rich they already are. No matter how much richer the folks across the way are.

It is all relative. But if you don't NEED something to live? That's a luxury item.
Yup. But we are not discussing village people in India or Russia buying a Cal25, are we.

All is relative if we want it to appear relative. But a Cal25 does not behave like a luxury good in Western economy, which is the setting for our discussion.

A Mercedes is, even though it is something we need to commute.

Goods which behave in the luxury way in the market are the expensive alternatives to the everyday things. Pairs: Mercedes - bike, Hallberg-Rassy - Cal25.

Calling a Cal25 a luxury good is OK only as much as it is to call it a "blue water" boat - especially the 5 or 10k sample.

Cheers,
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