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Old 25-09-2009, 00:17   #16
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Fay and Gustav way up the Mobile River behind 12 mile Island in Alabama!!
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Old 25-09-2009, 04:42   #17
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Its like eating a dozen raw potatoes for lunch and feeling them wiggle in your tummy ........"

I've been wondering what that feeling was caused by :-)
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Old 25-09-2009, 04:58   #18
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Ever driven a car at .... say 70 mph and then stuck your hand out the window...????
Now imagine every one of your standing rigging stays.... a fishuing pole at say 50 ft long, stuck out the car window at 70 mph..... crazy eh?
The initial post stated 4:1 anchor chain.... try at a minimum 5:1 and the make it 4 x ... one anchor to each major compass point because thats where the wind could come from.... any direction. Then,make sure there are no sails up, no dodger.... nothing that could create wind resistance.... then get off the boat yourself and find a place to pray to yourself...
I was in (near - passed by within 50 miles) a huricane and at 70 mph wind you cannot breath, cannot stand up or hope to do anything if your boat is threatened... you are risking your life.
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Old 25-09-2009, 07:59   #19
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This is easy, remove mast, get a lift, get a truck, load boat , head for Omha, NE. Do this at first indication of a tropical depression. This rule only applies in the western Hemisphere. In other parts of the world, the principle applies but do not, I repeat, do not head for Omaha.

Othere than that the "follow the commercial guys" is the perfect advice.
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Old 25-09-2009, 10:32   #20
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Reality check --In Katrina every boat hauled out and put on the lots at any of the marinas around here wound washed up in a pile somewhere. The boats anchored out and left gone as well, the ones that made it were the ones that ran up the Bay or rivers anchored and the owner stayed with the boat to adjust rode. The storm surge here was 30 feet as the stain on the wall at West Marine will attest. It is built on 15 foot pylons. Oh yeah thats 25 miles from the Gulf! For the most part winds aren't the problem, the storm surge is. A full keel sail boat can survive amazingly high winds when prepared--without damage.
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Old 28-09-2009, 01:38   #21
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For those of us who live year round in areas of TRS, there is a fine balance between fear and practicality, theory and reality.

With 10 to 15 Typhoons hitting the Philippines Islands every year, if I were to drag my boat up into the mangroves every time one threatened it would destroy it.

As I said before, investing in the best ground tackle, identifying a good Typhoon shelter nearby and most importantly reducing windage and staying with your boat to protect from others is a commitment that Typhoon area liveaboards make all the time.

Those that fail are usually the ones who do not “default” to Typhoon readiness all the time and run away when the boat needs them most.

On another note, my apologies to the OP who’s somewhat inventive first post asked a question which was met with ridicule by some.

It scares me when “experts” say you cannot do something and call solutions Mickey Mouse. There are always exceptions to the rule in seamanship, when conditions and design might suggest a radical solution.

Experienced Tug Boat captains seeking refuge in TRS conditions have in the past decided to flood their empty flat barges so that they are awash with much reduced windage.

Who is to say that solution might not be a last ditch consideration when you are without heavy ground tackle and your lee shore is rock strewn.

I am not!
When considering a 'fight or flight' response, I will always go for the flight option if possible. I think in sailing the Philippines, which I have done, when at all possible (boat seaworthy, etc.) I would rather be in the 'Land beneath the wind', Malaysia. My preference is to sail in the Philippines in the off typhoon season, and sail south below the typhoon line prior to and during the typhoon season. There is always the chance of being caught out with timing, but hey, I would rather be cautious and overstay in Malaysia, it's not such a bad place to be. Especially somewhere like Mirri or Labuan, or better still, Sutera Harbour.
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Old 28-09-2009, 04:26   #22
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You’re right, Swanee…getting out of a TRS zone if you can is the best option.

I want to get to know Malaysia a lot better for that very reason, but the Philippines is my home and I love it.

Problem is that you can get a nasty Typhoon in the Philippines any month of the year, so there is no simple solution if you enjoy cruising and living there.

You just have to be always on “standby” to find a good Typhoon shelter and have the best ground tackle available.

Leaving the boat to fend for itself during a TRS is a personal decision that only the individual can make. My own opinion is if you do not have a “Storm Plan” that gives you enough confidence to stay on board and monitor the situation, then that says a lot about your Plan.

Vic de Beer, I would never put anchors out at 4 points as you suggest, since keeping the boat broadside to the winds and surge is not recommended.

Better to let it swing on your heaviest ground tackle, so that it presents the least resistance to the rotating forces at anchor and position with enough room for a controlled drag.

The exception to this is when you are trussed up amongst the mangroves, then the more tie points you have the better.

I think the biggest problem sailors have in popular sailing areas, is that the anchorages are too crowded with not enough swing room for all the scope and a controlled drag, when a TRS hits hard.
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Old 28-09-2009, 10:19   #23
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You’re right, Swanee…getting out of a TRS zone if you can is the best option.


Vic de Beer, I would never put anchors out at 4 points as you suggest, since keeping the boat broadside to the winds and surge is not recommended.

Better to let it swing on your heaviest ground tackle, so that it presents the least resistance to the rotating forces at anchor and position with enough room for a controlled drag.

The exception to this is when you are trussed up amongst the mangroves, then the more tie points you have the better.

I.
Actually, what I meant was: 4 anchors as stated, but hanging by the bow. That is, all anchors on one line (a nice heavy one), attached to the bow, allowing the boat to swing 360 degrees, no matter where the wind was from, an achor is to windward.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:25   #24
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Reality check --In Katrina every boat hauled out and put on the lots at any of the marinas around here wound washed up in a pile somewhere. The boats anchored out and left gone as well, the ones that made it were the ones that ran up the Bay or rivers anchored and the owner stayed with the boat to adjust rode. The storm surge here was 30 feet as the stain on the wall at West Marine will attest. It is built on 15 foot pylons. Oh yeah thats 25 miles from the Gulf! For the most part winds aren't the problem, the storm surge is. A full keel sail boat can survive amazingly high winds when prepared--without damage.
I agree with this post. Abandoning ship means losing ship. Staying aboard and putting her somewhere safe means saving ship. I suppose when your ship is your life, like many fisherman, the boat comes before family....since without the boat the family doesn't survive intact anyway. Insurance?....don't make me laugh. A dollar for every insured boat denied compensation after Katrina would make a bunch of people very wealthy...and did, the insurers.
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Old 15-12-2009, 16:27   #25
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Drop anchor at say 4:1 scope, <clip>
OY!

I won't use 4:1 (don't forget the freeboard in the depth calculation) for a lunch hook environment. 5-6:1 is for protected environments. 7-8:1 is my norm. If I'm expecting lots of wind or sudden wind shifts, it's more like 10:1.

In a hurricane, you're not only going to have lots of wind, but lots of surge (read as more depth) and sudden wind changes (great for pulling out well-stuck anchors, particularly if you get up a head of steam from one direction to the next).

Up the mangroves, in the mud, is best, with a huge spiderweb of ropes in all directions (lots of spring angles to cope with the surge) but if you can't, be extreme in anchoring reserve. I've got 300' on both my main anchors (both oversized by one and two generations, respectively, already), and in a hurricane situation, likely I'd have all of it out. Chain doesn't do you any good in the locker... I also have two hurricane anchors with 200' rodes. Add to that, if I could get to the mangroves or the like, dozens of many-hundred foot lines both hard (no stretch) and soft.

For all that, usually, the best place is in very deep water, with a good storm anchor (choose your preference - parachute or drogue), perhaps run with a turning block such as the Pardeys in Storm Tactics...

YMMV, but unless you meant to say 14:1, that won't hold without it being to a monster mooring, IMO...

L8R

Skip, on 8-1 all-chain, with megabraid snubber, single oversized (Delta 55# on Morgan 461) in expected under 15K anchorage as I type
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Old 01-01-2010, 20:54   #26
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Find an adequate hurricane hole, creeks, mangrove place... Whatever.. Then get the hell out of there and under something solid. If that isnt an option then anchor and sink the boat then under something solid. Be sure to keep 10-20 g's in the bank for a backup boat for insurance purposes.
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Old 01-01-2010, 21:40   #27
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What do you think about just having an anchor with holding strength greater than the boat displacement? Then use a 1:10 scope to give plenty of shock to take on the surge.

Does the wind direction tend to change with hurricanes (I have no had to ride one out)? I am thinking a danforth anchor would not be so good because it may break out, or become fouled.
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Old 01-01-2010, 21:52   #28
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Yes the wind does change direction, especially if it hits you directly and you pass through the eye of the storm.
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Old 02-01-2010, 23:17   #29
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I have never been in a Hurricane. I have a plan though I figure 3 fortress anchores 120 degres apart of the bow if I am stuck inside FX-55 FX-37 and a FX-23 Thats my line up. At Sea Drag a Jordan I guess I dont know. I hope it never comes to any of this.
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