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Old 15-07-2011, 23:51   #1
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Challenge: Offshore in a J24

No, I have no interest in doing this, but a confluence of things made the question pop into my head "What would you do to a J24 if you wanted to go offshore in one?"

So here's the challenge:
J24
San Francisco to Hawai'i and back.
Boat does NOT have to remain class legal.
1 or 2 people aboard.
You will gunkhole around the Islands before returning.

Here's some info on the boat: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=245.

Tonight I started reading 'Black Feathers' the story of the guy who took a Cal20 on the 2008 Single Handed TransPac. Also this evening there was a thread doing on the list for the sailing club I used to be active in in Seattle discussing why J24's seem to have a propensity to capsize and sink. That's how this question popped into my head.

So here are my ideas:

The boat has a very serious stability issue, the AVS is just over 90deg. The first thing I would do is bolt a 300-400lb bulb to the bottom of the keel. There's a company (Mars Metals?) that makes bulbs for DIY installation.

Realizing the bulb will only help so much, I accept that capsizing is still a serious possiblity and would install floatation. There's two ways to go here: Styrofoam blocks or something inflatable.
If money was not much of an issue and I was racing I would be most likely to go inflatable for the weight savings. In either instance I would want floatation secured forward and in each quarter as high as possible and a long strip secured along each side again just under the deck. The goal being to have the boat floating as high as possible when inverted, so it is easier for another wave to roll back upright.

Bulkheads coming adrift are a recurring problem, I would triple up the tabbing.

Water intrusion thru cockpit hatches is also a known problem. I would seal the hatches, probably by glassing them over.

I would add backrest coamings and a dodger. I would probably install a block of styrofoam at the back of the cockpit to decrease its volume and there would suddenly be monster drains out the back end of the boat.

I would install a masthead halyard and a short, retractable sprit for a CodeZero. I would give serious consideration to running an extra set of cap shrouds up to the mast head.

Self-steering would either be a DIY windvane with trim tab on the outboard rudder or a very light commercial windvane such as a used Navik or a Mr. Vane.

I would install a chain pawl and a small bow roller. I would carry 125' of 1/4" chain and a 25lb main anchor. I would carry a medium sized Fortress with maybe 20' of chain. Plus of course all the extra line that normally goes with anchors.
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Old 16-07-2011, 00:05   #2
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

Rabble rouser. Trouble maker.

I read that the guy that took a Merit 25 on Transpac filled most unused spaces with foam.

I'm half way through Black Feathers.

John
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Old 16-07-2011, 00:17   #3
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

That's me a real troll. Funny how my professional life bleeds over into my personal and recreational life.

Have you been following the J24 thread on the WYC list?
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Old 16-07-2011, 01:12   #4
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Pack it into a container. Ship it to Hawaii. While there cruise the islands in a more robust boat. Ship it back. Unpack it. Seriously. A Santana 22 would be a better choice than a J24.
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Old 16-07-2011, 01:50   #5
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

Shhh, don't diss on the poor J! After all, what's the worst that can happen (provided you have all the safety gear and keep a good eye on weather)?
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Old 16-07-2011, 01:54   #6
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Did an offshore race in my 11:meter once. Inflated a huge size unused race mark in the forepeak. Just in case a gybe went badly.
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Old 16-07-2011, 05:02   #7
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

Actually.. I have raced a J24 out of MAui for several years.. a while back ! We saw 45 knots in the thing around Ma'alaea all the time...and spent a lot of time sailing it between the islands and in some really nasty weather.... I think the most important thing on them if you were going to go out to sea in one would be to have a good way of keeping yourself on the boat. I have pretty much no doubt that if you have a good boat you will make it... I was really surprised at the abuse our one took and just kept on going. However... they do tend to have quite a bit of helm so a good autopilot... wind vane style probbly would be at the VERY top of my want list.
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Old 16-07-2011, 12:13   #8
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingaway221 View Post
Actually.. I have raced a J24 out of MAui for several years.. a while back ! We saw 45 knots in the thing around Ma'alaea all the time...and spent a lot of time sailing it between the islands and in some really nasty weather.... I think the most important thing on them if you were going to go out to sea in one would be to have a good way of keeping yourself on the boat. I have pretty much no doubt that if you have a good boat you will make it... I was really surprised at the abuse our one took and just kept on going. However... they do tend to have quite a bit of helm so a good autopilot... wind vane style probbly would be at the VERY top of my want list.
Stability and water ingress issues aside they are actually pretty well built.

Tell me about the weather helm, is this an all the time issue or only in moderate to heavy weather? If there is a problem most of the time then rerigging as a masthead sloop instead of fractional might solve the problem, or adding a short bowsprit.
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Old 16-07-2011, 12:17   #9
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

glue the keel and rudder on better than factory ..LOL
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Old 16-07-2011, 12:18   #10
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
glue the keel and rudder on better than factory ..LOL
Where did you hear that they had problems with the keel falling off?
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Old 16-07-2011, 12:32   #11
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post
Pack it into a container. Ship it to Hawaii. While there cruise the islands in a more robust boat. Ship it back. Unpack it. Seriously. A Santana 22 would be a better choice than a J24.
I disagree:

Strengthwise the J24 is going to beat the Santana22, the J devoted a lot more mass to structure than the Santana adjusting for length and beam.

The Santana's advantage is stability not robustness. The S22 has a Bal/Dis of 47% vs 30% for the J24, and it is a longer boat for it's beam which also help ultimate stability.

Looked at this way the J is more likely to roll over, but the Santana is more likely to fall apart.
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Old 16-07-2011, 12:34   #12
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

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Where did you hear that they had problems with the keel falling off?
while back in baja haha in lat 38.... twice, now......
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Old 16-07-2011, 12:37   #13
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

Ok: I have a question.

After performing all the modification that you are suggesting, how much of the original J/24 is left?

Is it a J/.0001?
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Old 16-07-2011, 12:38   #14
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

The biggest issue to address is their history of downflooding and sinking when they capsize--perhaps a permanently fixed lower hatchboard. The second biggest would the the propensity of the outboard rudder fittings to break--bring spares.
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Old 16-07-2011, 13:12   #15
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Re: Challenge: Offshore in a J24

I'm a member of the SSS out of SF and have done a number of offshore races, winning my share in a Catalina 22 MK ll with a fin keel.. you can check the arcives ..
was planning on doing the Single handed Transpac in the 22 but added the numbers and they didnt look good.. The J 24 is more than capable of doing the trip, The last couple years the Moore 24 have been toing very well..
My concern with my boat and the transpac was weight issues.. the dry weight of the boat was around 26 hundred pounds.. when stores were loaded for the trip, the weight of the boat gained another 1000 to 1200 pounds.. thats adding 1/3 to 1/2 the weight of the boat again to the origional. thus changing the way the boat handles..
the same stores of 1000 to 1200 pounds in a 30 foot boat weighing in at 15 thousand would have less affect..
the heaveyer weight in the smaller boat would cause a slower pace so more stores would have to be added for the additional time, thus adding more weight and again, more time to get there.......
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