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Old 22-12-2010, 02:20   #16
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I just did my first ever crimps and found this article very helpful:
Marine Wire Termination Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com

Helpful tool recommendations and great photos show what a good crimp should look like.

I got the ratcheting type crimper the author recommended and it worked beautifully. The only difficulty I encountered was using a butane torch to heat the heat shrink. It took 6 or 7 practice connectors to figure how close to hold the torch.
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Old 22-12-2010, 05:48   #17
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Originally Posted by cuthbert View Post
I would add a few things on crimping

1) Never, never use anything like this

or this (even worse yet more costly)

The temptation is that you can strip and crimp and it actually does neither well.
Unless you are really practised at holding a wire cutter between thumb and ring/little finger strip with somthing like this


Klein Tools 409-11063 Automatic Wire Stripper#

And then again, I don't use a rachet crimper and was steered towards a forged crimper some years ago when working with industrial electricians. Just in terms of reliability of the crimp (I'm an EE and have previously worked in avionics where they are used under calibration control) you are relying on that device to stay consistant. Once you hold and use a solid forged crimper, you will never use anything else. Works every time and much cheaper, more reliable and easier to store on a boat (and in summary FWIW just better)


(as previously harbor freight sell one which I own at $5.50, most electricians buy similar but brand names for much more)

I'm not against the time saving complex devices for the important task of stripping the wire, but none can match a forged crimper even when used by a novice.

(I hope the pics work)
I whole heartidly 100% disagree with your sentiments and I too own a very well made Klein forged crimp too. I have also seen a LOT of DIY crimps and the failures are almost always related to staking style tools being used. While the forged head tools are vastly better than the cheap style you show they are not as relaible, in my own experience, as a properly used decent quality ratcheting crimp tool.

I own many crimp tools, perhaps over a dozen, Ancor, HFT, Klein, GB, FTZ, HT and two ratcheting AMP crimpers that cost $600.00+ and $1200.00+ respectively which are aircraft certified.

As an ABYC E-11 trained installer I have installed thousands of crimps. The most relaible by a long shot are those made with the right tool for the crimp being used. All of the AMP PIDG style three piece insulated crimps, whether made by FTZ, AMP, Molex or re-packaged by companies like Ancor, are designed to be best used with ratcheting crimpers. Can you use staking crimpers? Sure, but I would not suggest it. The Klein style can actually over crimp and fracture the crimp barrel seam. You also loose any strain relieving crimp on the strain relief barrel.

People often dislike ratchet crimpers because they; A) bought the wrong tool for the crimps used or B) used the wrong side of the "double crimp" jaw. One side is for strain relief and is larger, and one side is for the wire barrel crimp, and is the proper size. If you use a ratchet crimper the wrong way, the crimp will fail.

Heat shrink crimps ideally need their own specialized tools, and are also of the ratcheting type, but have smoother machined jaws so as not to rip the adhesive lined nylon or polyolefin.

I have seen far more failures, been on hundreds and hundreds of boats, related to the use of cheap staking/dimple crimpers than I have seen from the proper use of ratcheting crimpers. Heck, I just spent an hour and a half last Friday replacing about 30 staked crimps in an engine compartment where we had about a 15-20% pull out rate and lots of issues/glitches. You could tell by the length of the crimp on the nylon that this was a forged staking crimper that was used. About 8 out of the 10 failures were a failed barrel seam and the rest were the result of an over crimp situation and fracturing/damage of the copper. The dimple crimp failures I've seen are on par, or close to the number of solder failures I have seen.

This was a crimp made by a "reputable" marine refrigeration guy. It was made the wrong way and with a real cheap staking crimper. Wonder why it failed..?




Earth based electricians are not problem free but their installations rarely rattle or vibrate. When I re-wired the hack job on my new heating system in my home I counted 7 crimps, out of just 30 or so, that pulled right out of the crimp. The electrician used a similar tool to my Klein.

This crimp was made with an off-the shelf Ancor ratcheting crimper. This crimp is holding more than DOUBLE the ABYC E-11 TABLE XV – TENSILE TEST VALUES FOR CONNECTIONS load in pounds..



Use what you want for crimp tools, I suspect you won't be changing your mind. I will continue to go by actual experience and field success rates in the marine environment and actual experience with multiple crimp tools, including the style you use and I own.
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Old 22-12-2010, 08:37   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I whole heartidly 100% disagree with your sentiments.....

I own two ratcheting AMP crimpers that cost $600.00+ and $1200.00+ respectively........If you use a ratchet crimper the wrong way, the crimp will fail.

The Klein style can actually over crimp and fracture the crimp barrel seam. You also loose any strain relieving crimp on the strain relief barrel.
we had about a 15-20% pull out rate. over crimp situation and fracturing/damage of the copper......pulled right out of the crimp.

Use what you want for crimp tools.
If I may cut what you have said to the relevant facts.

You disagree 100% yet I have said test crimps by pulling on them and do not use a light pressed crimper (but recommend a $5.50 forged one). You then say that have 1800 dollars of crimpers yet admit that regardless of cost it is possible to make a bad crimp.

Your other comments are to test the crimp and inspect it, I agree here in that it is the ONLY way or discerning good or bad work.

I think we have all got our points across on crimping. Thanks.
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Old 22-12-2010, 08:56   #19
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Not the great crimp debate again We r getting of topic some
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Old 22-12-2010, 10:58   #20
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"the muscle spasm will contract your hand "
While the old sparky test is certainly convenient, please bear in mind that there are inexpensive NEON TESTERS that will light up when placed next to a hot wire, with no physical contact and ZERO RISK of electrocution.
Rubber mats, rubber boots, metal mesh suits, all very nice, but when you can eliminate contact and eliminate risk for under ten bucks....Why play sparky at all?
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Old 22-12-2010, 11:15   #21
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We have also noticed that some of the connections on the back of the instrument panel are also corroded -- which connections should we clean to see if this is perhaps the problem?

Can you suggest some next steps for troubleshooting?
As other have said re-termination and wire cleaning will likely be necessary as maybe, perhaps, some new wires. There is a product I often use called DeoxIT that works quite well as an aid in cleaning oxidized copper wire before re-termination.
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