Challenge: Abby Sunderland vs Jessica Watson

[Get-a-Life]

As one who lives down under, actually 42degrees south, heaving to in the Southern Ocean in 60 knots or more of wind does not appeal to me.

We carry a "Seabrake" for such occasions and have had to deploy it only once.

Yacht incidentally is a Carter 33. (Very similar to S&S 34)

Jess finished the course IMOH with honours and has more "cred" than any armchair theory bashing sailor will ever have.

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by Get-a-Life

Jess finished the course IMOH with honours and has more "cred" than any armchair theory bashing sailor will ever have.

I agree, but Jesse's record is still intact and certainly not "smashed".



-Sven

[solosailormike]

This is an exceptional trip for anyone, as anyone who has taken offshore trips would agree. A windvane can not be used by her boat. When I first heard of the media blitz on this [Jessica] trip I was very skeptical. Some how it did not sound correct. So, I am a bit confused on the information released to public, the system described requires no input but completely steers itself, it is a set and forget commercial based software program. If so it would be a terrible injustice to the journey. Example to the skeptic notation is all the previous world record breaking trips so far have been followed on the nets, this one does not, I assume it is because she uses sat-phone to receive computer up dates. This does not detract from her accomplishment which is exceptional but it puts a moment of truth of how it is being accomplished.

[Get-a-Life]

Solosailormike, cannot understand your post? Are you on the right yacht, Jessica's boat had a Fleming wind vane (made here in Aust) fitted, certainly not high tech.

Even with the most sophisticated autopilot onboard, and our friends will attest to the fact that we have such a system on our yacht, I haven't been able to get it to adjust/change sails, or make any other decisions with the well being of the boat and those onboard in its priority list.

The bottom line for me is that ANYONE who can sail around the world ("around" being a circle) non-stop is to be admired and not a figure to be belittled by small minded pettiness.

Those of us who are lucky enough to sail in the Southern Ocean know just what an incredible achievement this is.

[paradix]

Originally Posted by SvenG

I agree, but Jesse's record is still intact and certainly not "smashed".

-Sven

Actually, as Jesse was the first to admit, his record is not at all intact: it has not only been smashed, it's been entirely discontinued.

He's now simply "the last person to hold the record for the youngest person to sail single-handed non-stop unassisted around the world before the record was discontinued", a position he will hold indefinitely, presumably, or at least until the WSSRC change their minds again.

[SvenG]

Hi Paradix,

I was wondering what happened to you. Thought you were only going to be off line for a few days.

Originally Posted by paradix

Actually, as Jesse was the first to admit, his record is not at all intact: it has not only been smashed, it's been entirely discontinued.

Great, I was looking for any statement from him but hadn't seen any. Do you have a pointer or a reference to that statement that he made ?

Thanks,


-Sven

[paradix]

Hi Sven

I didn't realise I'd be missed - I'm touched! I've been in Sydney and very very busy as you can imagine.

The "reference" you're looking for points straight to Jesse's mouth , I spoke to him directly.

You'll be aware that Jesse and Mike Perham were the first people to board Jessica's yacht after she crossed the finish line, and they stayed in town for a few days. Actually Jesse and Jess settled the "record" issue once and for all with an arm wrestle a couple of days later (and yes, the mantle was passed...).

[CharlieCobra]

That would not surprise me one bit. Then again, nothing about Jess surprises me anymore....

[ZAR]

Hi,

Sorry for the intrusion but I have been following this for only a few weeks now after asking here about the meaning to a circumnavigation is.

Having read everything here now, I must say I am bemused by the tenacious explanations about anything Jessica did. Did you see, she look to her right. No you're wrong she wasn't "looking" right, she was in the process of looking left, and twitched to the right in doing so.

There seems to be some peculiar something going on to my non sailing mind, dare I say, drama, where explicit details doings or things are summarily dismissed as machinations.

It's most interesting the dynamics going on.

Am I missing something?

All I recall ever in many years in any sport is that you won or lost end of story. What exactly is allowing for this peculiar sudden allowance? As it a sailing thing? As mentioned I know nothing about it, except maybe the zillion dollars spent on the American's Cup even before anyone set sail, but is that it? That sailing is like grenades and horseshoes?

Actually can someone elucidate, what may seem as a completely stupid question, but is sailing a "sport' or something else. What's it's classification exactly?

[Pelagic]

Hi and welcome Zar… I think you have stepped in from outside with a question of clarity that most of us have forgotten to ask.

To some: sailing is a sport, based on traditions of good seamanship, humility before nature and a desire to balance all the dynamic forces around us

For Others: It is a competition, to win at all costs in order to demonstrate that most Britannic of traditions to ‘Waive the Rules” to perpetuate the idea that they “Rule the Waves.”

They rationalize racing disasters and poor seamanship as … in the interest of developing new equipment and techniques…. all the while drinking too much at blustery regattas and nitpicking other’s accomplishments.

For Most: Of the Cruisers I call friends, it is a means of transport, without the man made rules and traffic regulations found on land. We measure ourselves based on an internal scale that can only be seen in the mirror and we both appreciate and smile at the strange looks, our vocation seems to foster.

You have to look into the eyes of someone to find out what type of sailor they are… and the good ones (take a look at Jessica’s) rarely stop moving.

[Stillraining]

Hey Zar

Welcome aboard by the way.

Here is the deal in a nutshell.

Sailing historically has been all about seaworthiness of your craft and of yourself...Push those to the outer limits be that solo sailing or racing, challenging the wrong passage at the wrong time of year..col-regs and a dozen other topics and you alien yourself up on the wrong side of half of the sailing fraternity.

Some of the topics verg on Chevy vs Ford bologna..but some others are indeed hard to ignore all the implications.

Convincing one side or the other is futile at best...sometimes truces are made as in Jessica's case where a lot of naysayers have admitted she did a stellar job and admirer her for it even though there convictions of what she actually did is still not lined up with the salty mold they have invisioned for everyone bound buy the laws of the sea impregnated within their mind..

Someone else will ,Im sure word that better.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by ZAR

All I recall ever in many years in any sport is that you won or lost end of story. What exactly is allowing for this peculiar sudden allowance? As it a sailing thing? As mentioned I know nothing about it, except maybe the zillion dollars spent on the American's Cup even before anyone set sail, but is that it? That sailing is like grenades and horseshoes?

Actually can someone elucidate, what may seem as a completely stupid question, but is sailing a "sport' or something else. What's it's classification exactly?

Great question - Simple answer it is totally personal.

Once someone decides to compete then the questions change and the interested parties start to group.

Participants - They will state a goal. The goal may change. They may argue the rules. However - whatever they achieve is still personal.

Sanctioning Bodies - This can be a muddlesome mix. Who sanctions what? In the most organized sports - track and field, olympics, soccer etc - the recognized and credible sanctioning bodies are all pretty much set. In sailing short courses and for some long courses it is also set. The sanctioning body arguably sets the rules. The arguments are often around what sanctioning body is being observed, what are their rules and were the rules followed?

Observers - All of us. We get to second guess everyone else.

The Team and Sponsors - They have a big stake in the out come and in a way are a subset of the Participant.

In the observation game I think it is important to understand what group a respondent or commenter is in to help determine their credibility.

I will say as a participant Jessica has been gracious, with a distinct lack of hubris. What she has done (whatever it is and whomever defines it and however it is or is not sanctioned) is a spectacular achievement.

I also agree with Pelagic regarding the types of sailors. However I think one can be in different groups at different times.

When I am "cruising" I really don't sweat the details. Sail trim, VMGs, crew chatter etc. don't mean diddly as long as the cooler is still stocked.

When I am racing I like to compete as best I can and the whole dynamic on the boat changes for a few hours. We win some and we don't win some. We are always in the hunt and when we don't win it is usually because we have the wrong boat for the conditions.

We recently competed in a passage race and got 4th on handicap. One of the crew after the race said, "I don't think we could have sailed the boat any better." Of course the boat could always be sailed better but we had <5-6 knots all day and I know we sailed as best that this boat crew could sail this boat on that day for the conditions that day. We beat 3 other boats and were behind 3 light displacement boats so to to me we finished where expected and that was a good result.

[surfingminniwinni]

Originally Posted by paradix

The "reference" you're looking for points straight to Jesse's mouth , I spoke to him directly.

You'll be aware that Jesse and Mike Perham were the first people to board Jessica's yacht after she crossed the finish line, and they stayed in town for a few days. Actually Jesse and Jess settled the "record" issue once and for all with an arm wrestle a couple of days later (and yes, the mantle was passed...).

That was my "strawman" argument that was dismissed in the other thread!

Sven, when will you ever let it rest?

[Stillraining]

Abby's off again....Her confidence level or at least her on camera projection of confidence, just doesn't come off near as high on the scale to me as Jessica's does/did.

I wish her well.