Challenge: Abby Sunderland vs Jessica Watson

[Jim Cate]

Hmmm,
Todays Electronic Latitude 38 says that Abby is aborting to Cabo. Seems that she hasn't got enough electricity to survive. Maybe dad should have taught her to turnoff the lights...

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Broken Bay, NSW Oz

[infiniteblue]

I dont know about Abby,all her blogs seem to be a commentary on boat speed and power consumption, but Jessica has certainly impressed with her maturity, if not her storm tactics.
I suppose if there wasnt an issue with relative ages,relative to Abbys attempt really, she'd have postponed her voyage until she was properly prepared.
As it is the seasons are turning against her ,and I suppose sponsorship is dependant on a 'record'.
Sailing your 'dream' isnt though, you just have to ask "the lord' for another way of financing it...the lottery perhaps?

[dpex]

Originally Posted by infiniteblue

I dont know about Abby,all her blogs seem to be a commentary on boat speed and power consumption, but Jessica has certainly impressed with her maturity, if not her storm tactics.
I suppose if there wasnt an issue with relative ages,relative to Abbys attempt really, she'd have postponed her voyage until she was properly prepared.
As it is the seasons are turning against her ,and I suppose sponsorship is dependant on a 'record'.
Sailing your 'dream' isnt though, you just have to ask "the lord' for another way of financing it...the lottery perhaps?

So let's look at that. The winter 'Down There' and lat 43S is more than a bit chilly, but the worst storms mostly occur during Autumn. Mind you, how much more of a storm does one need to turn a vessel turtle.

So there's a fair chance Abby will get through in moderate seas.

The big item missing from both girls' inventory is a Jordan Series drogue. If Jesse had had one of these she wouldn't have had such a calamity.

I suggested such prior to her journey but got roundly ignored. Ho hum.

It's interesting that Jesse referred her knock-downs to the conditions experienced during that terrible Sydney Hobart race.

Have a shoofty at Jordan's site and read the math on what might have saved the Winstone Churchill. Good reading.

Nar. I think that if Abby's team finally take a breath, sort their stuff out, then she'll be fine. If not a bit frost-bitten.

[infiniteblue]

16 or not, I'd be thinking that the sailor would be more important than the back up team.
Some folk have said that Jesse Martin didnt know how to sail out of the Sandy marina when he left, and didnt really appear to have learnt on his return.
A bit harsh I think ,because he made the point that all he did was sail slowly around the world and was lucky he didnt encounter any really big storms.
'sail slowly around..." maybe you're correct, he should be on Abbys team.

Sea miles provides experience that cant be manufactured, by advisors either prior to departure or over the radio en route.

Whichever way you cut it, both these vogages require an element of good fortune greater than a 'standard' cicumnavigation..
Good luck to them both, and to Dilip Donde who is doing his own cicumnavigation, albeit not non stop, but more time below 40 degrees South it seems.

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by dpex

The big item missing from both girls' inventory is a Jordan Series drogue. If Jesse had had one of these she wouldn't have had such a calamity.

No. Jessica has a JSD as discussed earlier.



-Sven

[infiniteblue]

I'm as much concerned by the fact that Jesse and her team seem to think they did everything correctly in the gale as I am about team Sunderlands high technology razzle dazzle attempt.
I've already asked whether auto pilot turned on ,strapped in down below, and surfing down waves is the new otrhodoxy for 60+ knots of wind and big seas from astern, but yours is the first response that suggests someone other than me thinks it's plain dangerous...in a dangerous situation.

Somewhere Abby did mention the weather 'window' at the Horn. Myself, I'd like to think that I and my boat were able to handle anything that came along.

Finally, Jesses comparison of her storm with the 98 Hobart is hearsay and guesswork. She was about 4 years old, and none of her 'team' were either there (I'd wager), or out in the Atlantic with EPL.
That might indicate a problem with sailing the world by 'game plan' rather than alone and unnassisted, weighing up the options first hand.
Or maybe it was just providing' colour 'for land lubbers following her blog

[infiniteblue]

Originally Posted by SvenG

No. Jessica has a JSD as discussed earlier.



-Sven

Can anyone with experience speculate as to why she didnt use it, or heave to?

[dpex]

Originally Posted by SvenG

No. Jessica has a JSD as discussed earlier.



-Sven

So do we have any credible reason for why she didn't deploy it?

[dpex]

Originally Posted by infiniteblue

I'm as much concerned by the fact that Jesse and her team seem to think they did everything correctly in the gale as I am about team Sunderlands high technology razzle dazzle attempt.
I've already asked whether auto pilot turned on ,strapped in down below, and surfing down waves is the new otrhodoxy for 60+ knots of wind and big seas from astern, but yours is the first response that suggests someone other than me thinks it's plain dangerous...in a dangerous situation.

Somewhere Abby did mention the weather 'window' at the Horn. Myself, I'd like to think that I and my boat were able to handle anything that came along.

Finally, Jesses comparison of her storm with the 98 Hobart is hearsay and guesswork. She was about 4 years old, and none of her 'team' were either there (I'd wager), or out in the Atlantic with EPL.
That might indicate a problem with sailing the world by 'game plan' rather than alone and unnassisted, weighing up the options first hand.
Or maybe it was just providing' colour 'for land lubbers following her blog

The bit about Jesse being only four years of age when the Winstone met her end is unfair. The kid can now read, and that crash was well documented.

But yeah. I can sort've see your point about game-plan as opposed to sensibility.

Yeah. I'd like to know why she didn't deploy the Jordan.

I'll ask.

Don't expect a reply. Never had one yet. But you never know.

[infiniteblue]

Originally Posted by dpex

So do we have any credible reason for why she didn't deploy it?

Credible?? I've asked whether there is a new orthodoxy and faith in auto electrics (with a shudder mind you), but personally I speculate that she was told from afar that the conditions were going to be less severe than, in fact, they became (and probably quite quickly to an uneperienced
sailor). Consequently she was stuck down below,alone, and wasnt prepred to risk the on deck activity necessary for either deployment or heaving to.

[dpex]

Originally Posted by infiniteblue

Credible?? I've asked whether there is a new orthodoxy and faith in auto electrics (with a shudder mind you), but personally I speculate that she was told from afar that the conditions were going to be less severe than, in fact, they became (and probably quite quickly to an uneperienced
sailor). Consequently she was stuck down below,alone, and wasnt prepred to risk the on deck activity necessary for either deployment or heaving to.

Yup. That's as good a reason as I can imagine. Well done you for seeing it.

[Stillraining]

Jim : From what we gather she has had some charging and electrical issues...I don't fault her for those...its a by product of not enough time to test things out with enough shakedown cruises...sounded like she lost the ability to monitor her amperage draw as well.

I myself trust in her abilities to pull this RTW attempt off ...Im not so sure the boats ready though..and that will both defeat her and make her look bad if indeed things start failing and she starts struggling to manage and fight against exhaustion.

I don't think hand steering for 6 months is a very good backup plan...and I doubt Wild eyes goes sheet to tiller very well.

I know this fancy autopilot is the way the big boys do it...but like I said earlier this is not an all out race to push everything to the limits win at all cost or break something trying campaign with millions of dollars in funding backing you.

It just seems to me a simpler primary steering system is in order...I had concerns about this being to much boat for the task from the get go..but pushed that aside as me not knowing all the decision making reasons...I had no Idea up until the last day or so that it was all or nothing hydraulic auto pilot...and a very power hungry one at that.

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by infiniteblue

and wasnt prepred to risk the on deck activity necessary for either deployment or heaving to.

Heaving to in those conditions ?!?!




-Sven

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by SvenG

Heaving to in those conditions ?!?!

I agree. I'm a big fan of heaving to, but I would not want to try to balance a 34' sailboat at night in 70 knot winds and 30+ foot waves. I think it would be far more dangerous than running with the storm which is also a conventional storm tactic. I also don't understand the insistence that Jessica should have remained at the helm. I imagine visibility to be zero and blind seat-of-the-pants driving is likely to gain you nothing but increased risk.

Finally, I'm inclined to agree on the drogue. However, I don't know that a drogue does anything to prevent a following rogue wave from breaking on top of you, or that this is somehow less likely than being driven by a rogue wave into the trailing face of the previous wave. Drogue or not, if a 30+ footer breaks on top of a 34' sailboat, the boat is likely to go over. In the end it is impossible to say that some other tactic would have worked better. The only account we have is Jessica's; the boat survived remarkably well; it wasn't just luck; and therefore, her tactic is perfectly defensible.

[Stillraining]

Didn't expect to see this thread again...its reason for creation seamed to disappear.