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Old 22-12-2008, 12:03   #1
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pirate Challenge 21 and 30k USD Revisited with a twist

Ill take a minute to recap Pirate attack !! (no more)

You are 21 with all of your memories skills and knowledge intact. you have no attachments and 30k untaxed "aunt iloveyouenough Togiveyou30K cashwhenIdie" money.

I really liked to see how different personalities shined on this one.

But I want to put a little more/less depth to it.

1. where would you start? (buy a boat in fl even though you live in idaho, and fix it up + RE and then sell RE in a year and fund your 30k+ boat)--this has the potential of getting stuck!

2. where would you stay? (your 21 or 23 cmon were not going to the louvre, let's party.)

3.And finally... a plan for the future? or just run until it runs out and start again/realize you're not a sailor/run drugs/start offshore business in panama???



refer to pirate attack which anchor is best? if you need some background
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Old 22-12-2008, 12:18   #2
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Im there except -6k USD plus an RX-8 and way too many attachments... so my goal from now - start severing attachments sell my race cars and look for Auntie Iwanttogiveyou30kcash. then belize/panama/chile till I find my fate

I have had a hole burning in my brain so that there is little room left for else, to leave on a sailboat since I was in New Orleans and weeks away from circumnavi, when it all went downhill, and now ... well.. I have a 19' rhodes, not exactly circumnavi material, but a fun little boat, I dipped the mast once and so far I am waiting for an experience in my 155mph 9500rpm car, to match it. happy posting hope to see some soul searching.
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Old 22-12-2008, 18:31   #3
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Mmm... 21...

Well, I picked up a couple boats ~ 19' for under $1k. Let me see...

I'd look for a bit more boat than the Skipper 21 I had, but less (displacement) than the Beneford catboat. Maybe as much as $2k, but definitely not what most would consider world cruiser. I can think of about $2k worth of gear I consider essential, a long afternoon shopping for a few weeks worth of food, and I'd go.

With what I know now I'd probably put all the remaining money in moderately high risk investments, well, maybe a couple hundred out. And I'd work stupid jobs wherever I landed - flipping burgers, washing dishes, whatever I can find that won't accidentally become a career - trying to feed the savings and building the kitty living aboard the tiniest boat I can sleep/cook on. I spent a couple years living in an apartment on $200 a month - it's amazing how much you can put aside for the future when you're not spending money!

When I get bored, relationship breakup, fire the boss, blah blah, I'd move on to somewhere else interesting. Maybe move up a boat size or two, or down, as my fortunes fluctuate. Goal: live cheap on the hook on my own terms, hopefully somewhere warm without hurricanes. Maybe learn to migrate with the seasons.

Gods, I hope my kids don't read this.
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Old 23-12-2008, 10:49   #4
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Your example isn't too far off from the conditions in which I bought my first pocket cruiser. I lived in Iowa, but knew I wanted expedition sailing. Buying a boat 1,500 miles away was a bit daunting, so I purchased a 26-foot pocket cruiser (Westerly Centaur) on a trailer, did some work on it and then spent a summer sailing Lake Superior. More work and then took her to Florida, where I kept her. (I learned "trailerable" is a relative term). Over the next 6 years, I sailed her on about 5 trips of SE Florida and another 5 to the Bahamas. I considered farther afield. Several Centaurs have circumnavigated, but I decided passgemaking on a small pocket cruiser, short handed was not for me. The boat, insurance, storage, maintenance and all the trips were under that 30K you mentioned.

As I look at boats again, I am looking for cruisers selling for under 20K and hope to get several years of cruising in for the budget you've mentioned. After having done many kinds of sailing in many locations, I'm content to wander my way up and down the Bahamas. Other people have other dreams.
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Old 23-12-2008, 11:44   #5
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Well I am in my mid-20's and am 2 years into a 3-year plan to quit my job and go cruising/traveling. When I leave next year, after hurricane season 2009, Iíll have about that much saved plus a nicely outfitted Compac 23D on a trailer. Over the last 2 years Iíve gone from knowing zero about sailing and cruising to where I am now...

What size and scale of trip?

Like everyone, I initially had the dream of ďsailing around the worldĒ but once I started looking at the logistics (cost of boats!) and learning more about cruising, I realized it made a lot more sense to scale things down.

At this point, since Iíve never even been cruising, I donít even know if Iíll enjoy it. So, by keeping the initial cost and emotional investment low, it wonít be a huge disappointment if I end up wanting to quit cruising and try something else. Iíve settled on trying out the Keys and Bahamas for a season and not worrying about the destination as much as having fun.

How to buy the boat?

I live in Texas, far from the coast, so the boat logistics have been tricky (buy a boat on the Texas coast?, buy a trailer sailor?, or wait and buy a boat in Florida?). I ruled out buying a boat on the Texas coast, since I donít want to have to make a major offshore passage across the Gulf and I also donít want to have to go down the ICW to Florida. I think it makes more sense to buy a boat on a trailer...that way you can both learn boat maintenance and know the quality of the boat and also get some practice on the actual boat you plan to cruise in. This keeps the boat list to ~27í and under, which is all I can really afford anyways.

I also think I can save some money by going the trailer sailor route because I can work right up until I leave for the trip, and I also have time to search around for the best deals on both the boat and gear. If I bought the boat in Florida after quitting work, Iíd spend a few weeks just finding a boat, transferring the title and insurance, fixing whatever needs to be fixed, etc., which would be time and money lost. Buying a boat on a tight timeframe also seems like a bad idea.

Cost for the boat?

I see these posts of people buying boats for $3k, etc., but I think realistically you canít get in the water with a safe, minimally comfortable boat for much under ~$10k, unless you just find a great, great deal. Sure the boat might be $3k, but it will ALWAYS need at least SOME work, unless you are willing to take safety risks. And then there are all the extras that you need that are almost never included with a bargain boat Ė dinghy, life jackets/harnesses/jacklines, charts and guidebooks ($$$), handheld GPS, water jugs, camp stove, weather gear">foul weather gear, tools, spares. When you are starting out with nothing, the list is HUGE and boat stuff is so expensive.
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Old 23-12-2008, 12:05   #6
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Needs, wants, and goals

See, I saw this as challenge of looking at being 21, with a pile of money, and everything I know now.

I know that I don't need much to live on the water. Been there, done that.

A few thousands worth of boat and gear is enough to get by, even to do some surprisingly extensive cruising. Heck, a pair of aggressive dumpster divers just made it to Hawai'i on a trash catamaran named Junk. If you're young, willing to put up with some discomfort, and insist on independence rather than lofty dreams, go now. Stick to coastal, even inland, waters. And if you live cheaply, you won't need to work often or long to keep cruising.

The one thing I kick myself most for is wasting so much time and money on land. Every month I'm paying more than the annual slip fee in rent, every two months of rent is one year of cruising.
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Old 23-12-2008, 14:52   #7
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Some comments on a couple of your points:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmwarren View Post
At this point, since I’ve never even been cruising, I don’t even know if I’ll enjoy it.
I suggest you might try some cruising prior to buying the boat for your grand adventure. Take a live aboard course, crew for others or do a weekend trip on a smaller day sailor. However, I do think there is some logic to buying a boat you may be able to sail locally, but also do some short cruises on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nmwarren View Post
ruled out buying a boat on the Texas coast, since I don’t want to have to make a major offshore passage across the Gulf and I also don’t want to have to go down the ICW to Florida. I think it makes more sense to buy a boat on a trailer...that way you can both learn boat maintenance and know the quality of the boat and also get some practice on the actual boat you plan to cruise in. This keeps the boat list to ~27’ and under, which is all I can really afford anyways.
I understand your thinking, but consider the cost of a tow vehicle and trailer. One can make quite a boat upgrade for the price of those. Do you already have a vehicle that can tow such a boat? Once it's to your destination and your are cruising on it, the trailer and vehicle are no longer being used. If your goal is a one-shot thing and you don't plan to regularly transport it, shipping the boat or perhaps buying one in Floirda may be a less expensive open. I'm not against a trailer sailor, just pointing out other options.

(You'll see from my post, I started with a trailerable boat and have no regrets I did so. However, now that I'm looking again, I'm going to put the money that could have gone into a trailer and vehicle into the boat and storage instead.)

Another issue you may run into with a boat on a trailer is getting Bahamas insurance. The second something is viewed as a "trailer sailor" things can change that way.
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Old 23-12-2008, 16:24   #8
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to answer where are the under 10k boats

there is a cal 2-27 sailable with non working outboard--$1800 portland OR

less than 2k gets you any number of POSs under 30's in south florida

all world cruisers... granted your crazy as all hell, or pay very close attention to weather and have more luck than me.

2k for the boat 2k for supplies and 26k to last the rest of your life wherever the winds be fair.

sounds like a deal, now I just need to worry about the wife and kid....hmmm.
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Old 23-12-2008, 17:13   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmwarren View Post
Well I am in my mid-20's and am 2 years into a 3-year plan to quit my job and go cruising/traveling. When I leave next year, after hurricane season 2009, Iíll have about that much saved plus a nicely outfitted Compac 23D on a trailer. Over the last 2 years Iíve gone from knowing zero about sailing and cruising to where I am now...

I see these posts of people buying boats for $3k, etc., but I think realistically you canít get in the water with a safe, minimally comfortable boat for much under ~$10k, unless you just find a great, great deal. Sure the boat might be $3k, but it will ALWAYS need at least SOME work, unless you are willing to take safety risks. And then there are all the extras that you need that are almost never included with a bargain boat Ė dinghy, life jackets/harnesses/jacklines, charts and guidebooks ($$$), handheld GPS, water jugs, camp stove, foul weather gear, tools, spares. When you are starting out with nothing, the list is HUGE and boat stuff is so expensive.
From what I just read, you have an uncommonly good grip on reality. You should do well.
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Old 23-12-2008, 20:39   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nautical62 View Post
I suggest you might try some cruising prior to buying the boat for your grand adventure. Take a live aboard course, crew for others or do a weekend trip on a smaller day sailor. However, I do think there is some logic to buying a boat you may be able to sail locally, but also do some short cruises on.
Yes a great point. I definitely plan on taking the rest of the ASA (103/104) courses before I leave and I will look for opportunities to crew on more boats whenever possible. Remember that this is also difficult with not living near the coast (about 300 miles, which is not a trip I want to make in my old car).

Even so, I imagine that living on a boat for 1 week is a lot different than cruising for 6 months. But, I guess that's what I'll have to find out...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nautical62 View Post
I understand your thinking, but consider the cost of a tow vehicle and trailer.
So far, I've been borrowing a friend's vehicle for moving the boat to the lake and back. You're right though - owning a worthy towing vehicle is out of the question budget-wise.

I'm really looking at this as a one-way deal... For the big trip to Florida I was thinking I would do a one-way U-haul rental, which is about $450. So figure plus gas it'll be about $900. When I get to Florida I could either sell the trailer, which should recoup a good deal of that, or keep the trailer in storage somewhere, which would make it much easier to resell the boat after the trip. Even if I lose some money with the trailering, I really feel like it was worth it to buy a boat early on before the trip, if just for the fact that working on the boat over the last year has really helped to keep the dream alive. Also, just a one-way airfare to Florida is going to cost some $...

As for the other costs and the $10k figure....hey, if someone can find a boat and outfit it for a lot cheaper, great! Remember that it is so much harder not living on the coast and being so far from most suitable boats that are for sale. Also, I am factoring in ALL the costs...everything down to the money I spent traveling to go look at boats that I didn't end up purchasing.

Anyways, I don't want to hijack the spirit of the thread, but I thought all of this might be of interest to the younger people with less money that are in my shoes.
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Old 23-12-2008, 22:50   #11
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Sounds like a plan!

Weird, that title auto fills for me in this browser.

nmwarren: If your plan works for your goals, go for it! There are always ways and ways to accomplish what you mean to do with a boat. I'm from Minnesota originally, so I do sincerely understand being a long way from the ocean. But then, I put a thousand plus miles on my log on the Mississippi River: cruise where you are might be a sort of motto for me. Minnesota, actually, is unique among US states with three different routes to the ocean - North (via Red River of the North to Hudson's Bay), East (via the Great Lakes), and South. I never took one of them to the ocean, but it was in my plans to do so if we hadn't moved to the west coast.

Best of luck with your Florida cruise!
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Old 25-12-2008, 12:26   #12
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Hi...

I am 21, and don't have an aunt like that.

I'm about halfway through getting my boat ready. I bought a 28 foot 1961 Pearson Triton for a little over four thousand in July of 2007. Sailed her down to North Carolina from Annapolis, MD. I wanted an Alberg design, big enough to cross oceans... and far enough away to get some inland sailing miles under my keel. Spent a few weeks bringing her down (mechanical difficulties... college... and 80 mile weekends...) and reaffirmed that sailing and cruising is something I enjoy and not just a dream.

Over the last year and a half, I've poured in countless hours refitting what ails her, and strengthening her weaknesses. Another two thousand in materials, and another thousand in tools.

My rough guesstimate is another eight thousand (Gotta go through the rig!) and six months to have her back in sailing shape. Giving a go at using my little outboard instead of an inboard engine to cut costs, and gain back some sailing performance without a prop in the water.

Knowing what I know now, I'd have worked a few months more and paid more for a boat that was in better shape! In the same breath, knowing what I know now about rebuilding boats, I'd make the same choice and go for a project. It is a confidence builder to gain the knowledge that whatever breaks... I can fix. That hands on learning is not something I can assign a monetary value. Yet... you have no idea how much I miss sailing, its been more than a year!

I thought I'd be ready to go this fall, but it wasn't in the cards. It'll be done when its done, and I'll head off for waters unknown after I'm confident in her... and in my own skills, not as a builder... but navigator and sailor.

I'm taking the rebuild one small bite at a time as far as monetary expenditures go, works out to be around a hundred a week given to the boat. Trying to work up to a cruising kitty of 10k around the same time the boats done. Would be a bit of a bummer to suffer an inversion, where the boats no longer broke... but I am.

Zach
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Old 26-12-2008, 09:49   #13
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Wow it's great to hear that there are people who still know how to follow their dreams in this day and age thumbs way up to both of you... that being said I like to hear about your quest, but I was hoping that we could get some old-timers (no offense) to put their two cents in... the hope is that you have already been somewhere and now you can be 21 with a ball of cash and some adventure burning... where would you go for some adventure? how would you get there? the money isn't the problem, although limited, plenty for a foolish 21 yr old with something to prove
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Old 26-12-2008, 10:57   #14
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As already said, you seem to have a good grasp of things. I particularly liked:-

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmwarren View Post
At this point, since Iíve never even been cruising, I donít even know if Iíll enjoy it. So, by keeping the initial cost and emotional investment low, it wonít be a huge disappointment if I end up wanting to quit cruising and try something else. Iíve settled on trying out the Keys and Bahamas for a season and not worrying about the destination as much as having fun.
Cool sh#t dude*

Get to ride your own learning curve (without mortgaging your future), and if Plan B turns out to be living in a tree house in Borneo or a Pentouse Apartment in Manhattan then such is life - not knowing what the future holds is all part of the fun



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Old 26-12-2008, 11:24   #15
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It just struck me the other day that I am 45. Does that count as me being an old timer. When I was 21 Iwas watch Captain on a IOR one ton Farr 40 on the Transpac. Also did some Cabo Races and generally had a great time sailing. When in La Paz, Mexico I met a boat that was going to Tahiti leaving from Manzanillo Mexico. I rushed home and earned $4k, turned in my last paper for college, and didn't look back. I would do that again in a second. It is much easier to learn things on other peoples boats and if things get bad well you can just leave. I got allthe way to Sydney Australia where I got a job and lived landside for 9 months working and saving to sail keep on sailing. Wish I had kept on going instead of coming back to the US so I could buy my own boat. With $30k from Auntie I would have kept going. Auntie was going to sell me a Freya 39 for around $70k but that fell thru and Grnadma wouldn't lend me the money to buy a Cal 40 for $40k so I started working and that really messes things up. What would I have done different? Kept in better touch with the people that I met along the way and not stopped sailing so that I could concentrate on working to get the money I needed.

I have been following Zach's adventures online thru a few websites and wish I had been as smart as he.

NWarren. Good luck with you trip. It sounds like you have a good plan in place and your willing to listen to others and pick out the parts relevant to yourself. Good luck with the trip wherever you end up.
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