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Old 17-08-2008, 15:17   #46
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Great Job Wotname in bringing all the issues together!

In your Post #38….I agree with all the reasoning for deploying EPIRB and ultimately if any help miraculously did come in that area it would be a ship that could assist in MOB recovery as well as any supplies you might need to reach port.

You would also have that final option of abandoning ship if survival issues, including psychological ones, started to overwhelm you. So there is absolutely no reason not to deploy!

So What do you do next?

As I said before, get the engine going and work your way to the assumed MOB position (allowing for drift) and do a search (repeated power up-drift down scenario to conserve fuel)

The psychological issue is an important one to bring up because inside you are devastated!

You are now questioning every decision you made prior to the roll-over and loss.

If you allow yourself to succumb to your fear of survival and give up on a diligent search for your Wife (even to recover her body and make the final burial rights), you will never have closure and despite your will to survive, internally you will always struggle with a reason to survive.

So I would put aside 3 days to search, to grieve while slowly making the boat shipshape inside during darkness.

After the 3rd day, with the jury rig in place and an inventory of what I have salvaged from the carnage below, I would have a memorial ceremony, lay a wreath on the waters at the exact MOB position and drift with that wreath thru the night.

Next morning, I begin my new journey, to honour the memory of my wife as she has given me that reason to survive.

What are the tools we have to reach port Wotname?
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Old 17-08-2008, 15:24   #47
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I establish radio contact with the Aussie, who tells me he has claimed Lloyds Open Form Salvage on my wife, and she is going to run away with him to his private tropical paradise island to live happily ever after, and I realise she was not so stupid after all.
Ah, now you see the wisdom of just leaving them to drown .

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Seriously though, absolutely tremendous thread. Both thought provoking and educational.
Agree absolutely. Also brought back many recollections of having drummed into me as a little kid when dinghy sailing "Whatever happens stay with the boat, stay with the boat, stay with the boat, stay with..." - whoops, getting carried away here .

John
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Old 17-08-2008, 15:42   #48
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Just an observation and query regarding use of PLB's in the Challenge -

For countries such as USA, NZ and Australia where PLB's are registered against a user an alert will be responded to.

For countries such as the UK where PLB's cannot be registered against a user (so are anonymous, unless there has been a very recent change in that) I am uncertain as to how quickly any response would be made to an isolated area of the globe or even the intensity of a response should there be one, given that the veracity of the alert cannot be checked against nominated contacts on a register. Just a query, I don't know the answer, maybe someone does?
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Old 17-08-2008, 18:49   #49
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There are a variety of international government agencies that get involved and the problem of co-ordinating responses has become a lot easier thru network links and the development of GMDSS

Global Maritime Distress and Safety System Overview - USCG Navigation Center

I think Logistics would always dictate the speed of response but at least an Alert with PLB position would be transmitted to all ships.

This from http://www.international-maritime-rescue.org/saving-lives/

Two thirds of the earth's surface is covered by water. Governments of coastal states clearly have responsibility for safety and rescue within their own territorial waters, but much of the earths oceans are in fact stateless international waters. The world's governments cooperate through a number of key United Nations agencies such as the International Maritime Organization (IMO) and the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) to implement international conventions and regulations concerning safety and rescue on the world's waters.

IMRF is priveledged to represent the world's maritime rescue organisations at these key international forums
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Old 19-08-2008, 07:01   #50
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If there is a response, even later rather than same 24hr, at least I've got help with the search and assistance with the vessel. (Mine will only be a Cat so assitance nominal but a spare GPS etc useful). VHF contact is enough to report missing crew and vessel status to all relatives.
3 days searching. What else can you do. Sailing away really isn't an option except under duress or weather.
Getting the motor started and running without fouling is the only way to search with mast head lights on and regular fog horn soundings to alert / wake up survivior. If the liferaft is recovered then three days is the limit, if it's not then 5 days is the limit as the search area has become just too big.
Course for home. Downwind, chances of a jury rig making headway into wind is slim, and the life raft may be downwind somewhere.
Sextant to establish lattitude. Stay on that lattitude and something will appear over the horizon. Auss and Africa are big enough. Passing ships, if any, can give better fixes for DR to start working. Check compass against the rising sun allowing for season.
Water, hot food, dry bedding should be sorted by now. The will to survive will over ride the mundane, wanting to will take a couple of years but that liferaft could be twenty miles ahead if my log of wind and guesses as to drift are close.
I'm still tacking downwind to cover the most water, and fishing to extend the food. Hand pumping the watermaker is a sod but got some salty rain water last night. I'll be alright, Neptune allowing.
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Old 20-08-2008, 06:08   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidLandOne View Post
Just an observation and query regarding use of PLB's in the Challenge -

For countries such as USA, NZ and Australia where PLB's are registered against a user an alert will be responded to.

For countries such as the UK where PLB's cannot be registered against a user (so are anonymous, unless there has been a very recent change in that) I am uncertain as to how quickly any response would be made to an isolated area of the globe or even the intensity of a response should there be one, given that the veracity of the alert cannot be checked against nominated contacts on a register. Just a query, I don't know the answer, maybe someone does?
Hmm.. can't help with the UK situation, any Poms around who know??

FWIW, In Oz, PLB's can be registered to a parent vessel to supplement (but not replace) the EPIRB. As someone who potentially singlehands, I see a minor spin off with this arrangement in so far that depending on whether the PLB or the EPIRB is activated, some small idea of the distress situation could be inferred.
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Old 20-08-2008, 06:56   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3].......So What do you do next?

As I said before, get the engine going and work your way to the assumed MOB position (allowing for drift) and do a search (repeated power up-drift down scenario to conserve fuel)
I like that, never thought of the power up - drift down idea.
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The psychological issue is an important one to bring up because inside you are devastated!
Possibily the most difficult to assess and define while sitting inside a comfy house yet during the last day or so when I think about this thread, I have moments of feeling lost or afraid. Now without getting carried away, I know this would NEVER be anything like experiencing the real world situation yet just thinking about how it might be does have an effect.
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You are now questioning every decision you made prior to the roll-over and loss.

If you allow yourself to succumb to your fear of survival and give up on a diligent search for your Wife (even to recover her body and make the final burial rights), you will never have closure and despite your will to survive, internally you will always struggle with a reason to survive.

So I would put aside 3 days to search, to grieve while slowly making the boat shipshape inside during darkness.

After the 3rd day, with the jury rig in place and an inventory of what I have salvaged from the carnage below, I would have a memorial ceremony, lay a wreath on the waters at the exact MOB position and drift with that wreath thru the night.

Next morning, I begin my new journey, to honour the memory of my wife as she has given me that reason to survive.
Yes that does make some sense. Until you posted it, I was just thinking "what the heck, no one would survive after say 12 hours in these waters even with the best survival suit, so just get on with it". I guess one would do whatever seemed best at the time but your suggestion does have a ring of "useful ceremony" about it.
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What are the tools we have to reach port Wotname?
OK to recap the current situation.

You have salvaged the boom, spinnaker pole (only 1), the mainsail, but not the trisail, the staysail (boat was cutter rigged), but not the headsail or furling gear. You have an assortment of stays in various lengths that were saved from the rig. Below you have a spinnaker and a storm jib.

You have discovered why you had lost all electrics, The distribution panel was smashed by an unknown lose object during the roll over, a table knife was wedged against the bus and the earth point (poor design, nothing is perfect) Both main fuseable links were taken out on the battery leads. You have removed the knife, replaced the fuseable links and find you have basic electrical circuits like lights and pumps.

However the electronic equipment is still not working (for various different reasons - smashed, water ingress, antennas gone, etc); e.g. radios, radar, log, sounder, GPS, chart plotter, refrigeration and so on.

Engine is now working and so is primary generator / regulator. After searching for MOB for 3 days, you only have enough fuel 50 hours (or 200 nm in the average sea state of the area).

You also discover that you can't locate the spare batteries for the handheld radio and handheld GPS.

You still have the life raft (the Givens) but not the ships EPIRB. Rightly or wrongly, that was tossed over the side the night before; however you still have you own PLB that is attached to the survival suit.

The only large scale charts you have is Port Stanley and Cape Town but you have (waterlogged) small scale charts of the south eastern Pacific and southern Alantic. You also have the current Pilots for these areas. Your original destintation had been Cape Town.

You also have your sextant but haven't used it for many years and you have the sight reduction tables and current almanac (wet of course). Although the ships clock is battery powered and still working, you can't be sure of its accuracy as you have gotten out of the habit of checking it. You note there is a 2 minute 20 second discrepancy between the clock and your watch (which also hasn't been checked for a couple of months).

All forms of self steering (wind and electric) are gone.

Stores are adequate for at least 6 months (remembering there is now only one mouth to feed).

Fresh water is around 50 gallons (200 litres) but electric watermaker is unserviceable.

Let's assume you jury rigged an arrangement that lets you sail downwind at 4 kts in most weather (with wind speeds over 10 kts) but limits your ability on the wind to at the best, a 3 kt beam reach providing the wind is below 20 kts. At higher winds, a broad reach is the best you can obtain.

However if someone can feasibily suggest a better sailing rig with what's available, please post your suggestions.

Finally there was no known response to the EPIRB.

Among other potential issues, what are you plans now?

What are you threats and opportunities?

What is you safest option and do you take it or do you take some other option?

Where do you plan to make a landfall / port?

How will you navigate?

How do propose to sail single handed with no self steering and unbalanced sail rig?
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Old 20-08-2008, 06:59   #53
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My understanding fot the UK is that there is a register held by the RNLI where for a moderate fee the EPIRB can be registered as belonging to a vessel and contact names and numbers added.
Other sytsems are the GPS trackers that alert if the boat moves too far. These also have Emergency buttons that alert the providers base station. messaging is available with some dearer ones. They can also be programmed to ring the mobile number given which covers unauthorised movement, dragged anchor, (and shifting as the tide changes).
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Old 20-08-2008, 07:16   #54
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....
Getting the motor started and running without fouling is the only way to search with mast head lights on and regular fog horn soundings to alert / wake up survivior.
Sorry to be pedandtic but the mast has gone and with it the mast head lights.
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If the liferaft is recovered then three days is the limit, if it's not then 5 days is the limit as the search area has become just too big.
Course for home. Downwind, chances of a jury rig making headway into wind is slim, and the life raft may be downwind somewhere.
Sextant to establish lattitude. Stay on that lattitude and something will appear over the horizon. Auss and Africa are big enough.
At 46 south, half way between NZ and Cape Horn, South America is going to get in the way before Aus or Africa. So are you deciding to continue on to the South American coast which is all likelihood be a lee shore or dropping further south into more hostile waters in order to round Cape Horn in a fairly disabled yacht. Or perhaps some other plan.

I grant you that all options are rather troublesome but I am interested in knowing which pick of a bad bunch you would take.
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Passing ships, if any, can give better fixes for DR to start working. Check compass against the rising sun allowing for season.
Water, hot food, dry bedding should be sorted by now. The will to survive will over ride the mundane, wanting to will take a couple of years but that liferaft could be twenty miles ahead if my log of wind and guesses as to drift are close.
I'm still tacking downwind to cover the most water, and fishing to extend the food. Hand pumping the watermaker is a sod but got some salty rain water last night. I'll be alright, Neptune allowing.
Given the data posted so far in this challenge, I think there are other options re navigation that haven't been explored yet but I will wait for others before developing my ideas.
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Old 20-08-2008, 07:50   #55
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I agree on other nav systems, I've got a book with the sextant. I thumbed through it and decided if I was coastal I'd get by, if I was blue I'd have time to read it before I hit something. For now I'll try and maintain an East or West course. in a few days I'll start reading, there are other things to do and things not to be thought about too deeply. Concentration is going to be shot to hell anyway.
I'll give you the masterhead lights, pleading PaNiC. Fog horn might help though? Once dark flashlights on the sail after fog horn and so on into the night. Long Lonely Night.
Please can we assume it all worked and she's in sight again sitting on a dolphin?
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Old 20-08-2008, 08:19   #56
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if I was blue I'd have time to read it before I hit something.
Love it. My kind of thinking.

[/quote=Eleven;195995]
Please can we assume it all worked and she's in sight again sitting on a dolphin? [/quote]

You're a softy at heart.
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Old 20-08-2008, 08:47   #57
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...
Please can we assume it all worked and she's in sight again sitting on a dolphin?
Maybe we need an alternate ending, what say you Eleven, how do you propose to lure the Missus off the dolphin and back onto a crippled yacht with paniced and (by now) probably smelly husband on board.
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Old 20-08-2008, 10:31   #58
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...Miles Smeeton ..when rolled over in similar conditions, went below and made a cuppa tea, before doing anything else…
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There's a lot of sense in their doing this; in any stressful situation things will go much better if you can all calm down and avoid panic, undertaking a mundane task such as making a brew would fit the bill nicely. I remember a similar anecdote (I think relating to Joshua Slocum getting shipwrecked in Brazil) where his crewman settled down to sharpen all his tools before commencing the re-construction.
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