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Old 02-04-2014, 08:57   #16
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

Dockhead- this is actually a simple task, even singlehanded. AToll is perfectly correct in his method. Singlehanding, put a big fender between your bow and the dock. Run a line from your bow over a cleat on the dock somewhere behind your bow an continue to run the line back to the cockpit

You now have the line in your hand, keep it taut turn your helm hard towards the dock and put the engine in forward (slow). The forward motion will push the bow against the fender, but since the boat is held in place by the line, the stern will start moving out. When your stern is at the appropriate angle, switch to reverse and back the boat out. You line will run off the dock, but because it is in front of you and you are going in reverse it will stay in front of hte boat. When far enough away, leave the helm and retrieve the line.

Alternatively, rig the fenders at your stern quarter and a line to a cleat right at hte quarter and back to the cockpit. Hold this line tight.

Turn your helm away from the dock, put the engine in forward gear. Your bow will now move away from the dock. When it is far enough away, retrieve your line.

Keine hekseri - nur behandigkeit!


Or else, open another bottle of red wine, put some good opera arais on the stereo and forget about sailing that day
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:14   #17
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Dockhead- this is actually a simple task, even singlehanded. AToll is perfectly correct in his method. Singlehanding, put a big fender between your bow and the dock. Run a line from your bow over a cleat on the dock somewhere behind your bow an continue to run the line back to the cockpit

You now have the line in your hand, keep it taut turn your helm hard towards the dock and put the engine in forward (slow). The forward motion will push the bow against the fender, but since the boat is held in place by the line, the stern will start moving out. When your stern is at the appropriate angle, switch to reverse and back the boat out. You line will run off the dock, but because it is in front of you and you are going in reverse it will stay in front of hte boat. When far enough away, leave the helm and retrieve the line.

Alternatively, rig the fenders at your stern quarter and a line to a cleat right at hte quarter and back to the cockpit. Hold this line tight.

Turn your helm away from the dock, put the engine in forward gear. Your bow will now move away from the dock. When it is far enough away, retrieve your line.

Keine hekseri - nur behandigkeit!


Or else, open another bottle of red wine, put some good opera arais on the stereo and forget about sailing that day
Keine hexerei indeed -- nur schaut das anders aus

Yes, I think it's a great method, but I think I won't try it single handed in close quarters and in a strong wind like I was today -- the time required for a round trip to the bow on a boat the size of mine is more than enough time to get into a lot of trouble on a windy day, in a crowded marina.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:33   #18
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

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I think I would agree with you if we were talking about a boat without a thruster.

The absolute greatest thing about having a bow thruster is that you can steer the boat from both ends. It's like having a rudder at both ends of the boat. So yes -- backing out will definitely spin the bow into the dock (I think I mentioned that), but with the thruster you can steer the bow to keep it just off the dock -- something I use it for constantly.

Very fancy.

Yes, you are correct. A bow thruster is a game changer.
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Old 02-04-2014, 16:50   #19
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

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to answer you first question,i would rig a spring line to the bow,power the stern off in fwd with the helm hard over,till 45 degrees from the dock,then slow astern using bow thruster to get you out in to the channel,but you will need someone on the dock to cast off bowline once you are clear.
Using this method with a spring line attached. Would it be the same without the bow thruster?

Not saying I would not have one but what if? Or its busted?

wandering and wondering around with no destionation
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Old 02-04-2014, 17:02   #20
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

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Using this method with a spring line attached. Would it be the same without the bow thruster?

Not saying I would not have one but what if? Or its busted?

wandering and wondering around with no destionation
this is generally how you would get off without a bow thruster,but you would carry on reversing untill mid channel and parallel to the dock before going forward,

the bow thruster just allows you to get parallel sooner,and pointed in the right direction to power forward,without risking side swiping the dock with the stern
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Old 02-04-2014, 17:16   #21
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
this is generally how you would get off without a bow thruster,but you would carry on reversing untill mid channel and parallel to the dock before going forward,

the bow thruster just allows you to get parallel sooner,and pointed in the right direction to power forward,without risking side swiping the dock with the stern

Im guessing and as your stern swings out the wind shifts to your port quarter thus helping your bow as well to swing away possibly. Since now you have the wind hopefully between you and the dock. While going to reverse and pulling into the channel.

I can picture the maneuver a little. Just need to see how the fender reacts up in the bow in real time. May not be a issue but something Id like to see. I will pay attention next time I do get to a marina.

Thanks...

I do like plan A a lot better tho hehe...
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Old 02-04-2014, 17:33   #22
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

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if it is blowing 20 knots in the marina in the solent,it is blowing 35 outside!

sounds like a good excuse to go and discuss the situation in front of a log fire at the yacht club bar.............
+1 Especially with a full keel and no bow thruster.
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Old 02-04-2014, 17:57   #23
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

Done this a few times from my berth single handed.
I have a BT, but for some perverse reason, choose not to use it.
This method works where the pontoon cleats are the horn type, not bollards.

Rig some extra fenders at the bow
Put a small bowline in a mooring line (or any suitable line). Place eye over a shore cleat, about 1/4 boat length from fwd. Put the eye only over the cleat horn nearest to your stern. Secure other end at your bow.
Rig stern line as a bight.
Cast off all lines except stern line and fwd spring.
Slip stern line
Motor ahead, steer towards dock
When stern through wind, come astern
Wind will keep bow from dragging on the dock, As you gain stern way, the eye on the spring will slip off the cleat.
Off you go,and recover spring line at your leisure.

All said and done, safer to have some one on the dock to cast off the spring (just in case)
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:31   #24
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

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I should have mentioned that my prop kicks to port! So prop walk is working against Variant 1. If my prop kicked to starboard, Variant 1 would be a no-brainer.
And I should read more carefully Your original post
What I missed was the wind from quarter, and I somehow thought about wind pinning You form starboard at 90 degrees

Good for You that Your bow shape (and probably the ponton/quay height) allowed You to take the steern far out enough to be in the line of wind.

Whem reading Your post I just remembered the somewhat similar situation I experienced in the past.
I was moored alongside (port to) in so called "Mykonos Marina" (I hate the place, but it was necessary to leave my guests there to catch a plane home).
I had two boats rafted outside me, two rafted in front and three rafted behind, so I was in the deep hole
On the other side both boats rafted declared early departure, so I hoped to get out before katabatic wind from the mountainous shore will start to blow hard onto the quay. Unhappily what was "early" for them appeared to be too late for me, and when I was ready to depart, it was blowing well over 20 knots in unpredictable gusts. On the positive side we were doublehanded, with my Dearest Highest Authority on board
I did exactly like carstenb wrote in his post: fendered well my port aft, led the line from my starboard aft to the eye on the quay just aft to my stern (both ends on board, one on self tailing winch for easy drop), engaged the bow thruster to push the bow to starboard, engine forward on decent revs and the boat turned quite easily to starboard. I must admit I kept my ruder opposite to carstenb advice, as I wanted the prop wash to push my stern out of the quay. The power of engine and bow thruster was enough to turn the boat kept by the line from the starboard aft. When we were pointing at 90 degrees off the quay I just slipped the line from the selftailer, while my Highest Authority left the spare fender (she was to fender us off in the case of failure) and run to retreive thee line quickly. With no hassle we we were motoring out from the "marina" towards much calmer conditions, out of reach of this katabatic wind
I think the only one danger regarding such a manoeuver is the possibility of fouling the line keeping the stern. For such - and others - situations I have installed a lot of fairleads with rollers around the deck. Always there is only single line through the given fairlead, and rollers assure for smooth operation. They are some photos of this arrangement (last four in the album "Boat & Crew") on my profile here, on CF.

In the given conditions it was not possible for me to get out stern forward. With high quay it was way too much risk of damaging the stem

Cheers

Tomasz
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Old 10-06-2014, 15:40   #25
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

Delay your departure.....LOL
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Old 10-06-2014, 17:40   #26
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

Talking about bow thrusters, I do love to watch 'experienced' skippers try to berth their yachts when the bow thrusters either can't keep pace with wind/tide, or just flat out don't work.
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Old 11-06-2014, 00:24   #27
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

Dockhead - last summer I was in Scanör. The harbour was filled to the brim and we were rafted up three boats out. The two on our outside left and we decided to leave also. Dead ahead were three boats rafted and the same behind, with only about a meter of space between our bows to the rafted boats, the same at the stern. When we decided to leave, everyone, and I do mean everyone, stopped to see how badly we would cock this up.

We rigged BIG fender across the bow and a line from the bow around a dock cleat just aft of the bow, both ends of the line aboard the boat.

My wife was helmsman. She put the engine in forward, rudder turned hard to push the bow into the dock and slowly increased the revs until the bow line was taut and the bow was hard against the fender and the dock.

As she increased the revs, the stern swung out. She kept going until the boat was at 90 degrees to the dock, gave me the tumbs up and put the engine in reverse. I unshipped the line and she just backed away from the dock into clear water.

The maneuver garnered knowing nods from the old salts hanging around and wide open mouths from those that had never seen this before.

We have a bow thruster but didn't use it here. Had she been singlehanded she would have run the line back to a fairlead in the bow and on back to the cockpit with a wrap around a self-tailing winch to belay it. When she then was safely at 90 degrees to the dock, she would have released the line, allowing it to run itself out through the fairlead. Continuing to back away, the line would have been in front of the boat (and therefore not been able to foul the propeller) At some safe distance from the dock - she would have gone forward and retrieved the line.
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Old 11-06-2014, 02:49   #28
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Dockhead - last summer I was in Scanör. The harbour was filled to the brim and we were rafted up three boats out. The two on our outside left and we decided to leave also. Dead ahead were three boats rafted and the same behind, with only about a meter of space between our bows to the rafted boats, the same at the stern. When we decided to leave, everyone, and I do mean everyone, stopped to see how badly we would cock this up.

We rigged BIG fender across the bow and a line from the bow around a dock cleat just aft of the bow, both ends of the line aboard the boat.

My wife was helmsman. She put the engine in forward, rudder turned hard to push the bow into the dock and slowly increased the revs until the bow line was taut and the bow was hard against the fender and the dock.

As she increased the revs, the stern swung out. She kept going until the boat was at 90 degrees to the dock, gave me the tumbs up and put the engine in reverse. I unshipped the line and she just backed away from the dock into clear water.

The maneuver garnered knowing nods from the old salts hanging around and wide open mouths from those that had never seen this before.

We have a bow thruster but didn't use it here. Had she been singlehanded she would have run the line back to a fairlead in the bow and on back to the cockpit with a wrap around a self-tailing winch to belay it. When she then was safely at 90 degrees to the dock, she would have released the line, allowing it to run itself out through the fairlead. Continuing to back away, the line would have been in front of the boat (and therefore not been able to foul the propeller) At some safe distance from the dock - she would have gone forward and retrieved the line.
That's a good maneuver! I get a lot of satisfaction from well-executed harbor maneuvers. In my case, good luck is often involved, more than skill

I think I would have done the same in such a situation as I don't think it could have been done with a bow thruster, if I understood the situation correctly -- no room either ahead or behind, and boats rafted far out to either side -- so needing to pivot right around. I would have worried about the bows hitting the dock, fender or no (how did you prevent that?) -- as by the time you get to 90 degrees, the fender won't be working, right?

I tried to do something similar once and failed -- it was a good lesson. Once I got the stern swung out using a spring line like you did, I tried to go over to reverse in order to gain clearance at the bow so it wouldn't touch the dock. Even with the rudder hard over, the stern swung back in. I was puzzled by this, then realized that the turning force generated from the spring line's being attached to the port side bow cleat was stronger than what the rudder could do -- duh. Spring line maneuvers take practice!
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Old 11-06-2014, 03:11   #29
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

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That's a good maneuver! I get a lot of satisfaction from well-executed harbor maneuvers. In my case, good luck is often involved, more than skill

I think I would have done the same in such a situation as I don't think it could have been done with a bow thruster, if I understood the situation correctly -- no room either ahead or behind, and boats rafted far out to either side -- so needing to pivot right around. I would have worried about the bows hitting the dock, fender or no (how did you prevent that?) -- as by the time you get to 90 degrees, the fender won't be working, right?

I tried to do something similar once and failed -- it was a good lesson. Once I got the stern swung out using a spring line like you did, I tried to go over to reverse in order to gain clearance at the bow so it wouldn't touch the dock. Even with the rudder hard over, the stern swung back in. I was puzzled by this, then realized that the turning force generated from the spring line's being attached to the port side bow cleat was stronger than what the rudder could do -- duh. Spring line maneuvers take practice!
It is a very good idea to practice with spring lines. We actually take an afternoon each year at the start of the season and practice harbour maneuvers just to get back intothe mind set. We reward ourselves with a good dinner and wine afterwards (need something as a reward for all the hard work).

We have a VERY long fender that we can rig which actually extends beyond the bow. When the bow turns in, the fender "wraps" around the front end.

Actually when I thnk about it, we have a lot of fenders. 2 big strawberry types, 1 small strawberry, 6 regular long fenders and two VERY long fenders. Admittedly a lot for a 40 foot boat - but we sometimes end up berthing in industrial harbours and if the smaller harbours are filled, we'll end up with boats rafting up all over the place. We have managed to deploy them all on a couple of occassions
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Old 11-06-2014, 04:50   #30
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Re: Boat Handling Puzzle

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We have a bow thruster but didn't use it here. Had she been singlehanded she would have run the line back to a fairlead in the bow and on back to the cockpit with a wrap around a self-tailing winch to belay it. When she then was safely at 90 degrees to the dock, she would have released the line, allowing it to run itself out through the fairlead. Continuing to back away, the line would have been in front of the boat (and therefore not been able to foul the propeller) At some safe distance from the dock - she would have gone forward and retrieved the line.
With smaller boats singlehanded I've had both ends of the spring run to cockpit to retrieve it.
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