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Old 07-10-2015, 21:59   #1
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Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

This is purely an hypothetical question which is why it is in the Challenges forum.

And so I am looking for hypothetical responses from armchair sea lawyers .

So my Aussie mate Chris (nice gender neutral name) is planning to sail solo non-stop unassisted around the world on a second hand SS36 aptly called "Once 'Rounder". Chris is planning to depart (and return to) from a small harbour in northern Tasmania and doesn't have a current passport and Once 'Rounder is not on the Aussie shipping register. Chris has state registration for the boat and Chris has a Tasmanian boating licence.

Now Chris wants to do everything legal like but only wants to comply with the absolute minimum of requirements.

Some of the things Chris would like to know is:

Is a passport required?
Does the boat need to be put on the Aussie shipping register?
Do Customs need to clear the boat and skipper on departure?
Do Customs need to clear the boat on arrival?
Do AQIS need to be informed re departure and arrival?

Is any Australian law broken if Chris tells no one and drops his mooring one day and about 9 months later returns and picks it up again?

Remember Chris is not entering any other port or foreign country during this circumnavigation but clearly will be sailing in international waters.

If possible, could you back up your opinions with some reference (however minor) to the relevant Acts.
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Old 07-10-2015, 22:13   #2
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Does the boat need to be put on the Aussie shipping register?
Yes, according to the Australian Maritime safety authority:
"A vessel on the high seas is, under international law, required to have nationality."

https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels/ship...oats/index.asp

Edited to add:
"Small size" (under 12m?) can exclude boats from generally accepted international regulations according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
This may apply here.

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Old 07-10-2015, 22:20   #3
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

OK.. I'll play and start guessing answers in your quote


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
This is purely an hypothetical question which is why it is in the Challenges forum.

And so I am looking for hypothetical responses from armchair sea lawyers .

So my Aussie mate Chris (nice gender neutral name) is planning to sail solo non-stop unassisted around the world on a second hand SS36 aptly called "Once 'Rounder". Chris is planning to depart (and return to) from a small harbour in northern Tasmania and doesn't have a current passport and Once 'Rounder is not on the Aussie shipping register. Chris has state registration for the boat and Chris has a Tasmanian boating licence.

Now Chris wants to do everything legal like but only wants to comply with the absolute minimum of requirements.

Some of the things Chris would like to know is:

Is a passport required? YES
Does the boat need to be put on the Aussie shipping register? YES
Do Customs need to clear the boat and skipper on departure? YES
Do Customs need to clear the boat on arrival? YES
Do AQIS need to be informed re departure and arrival? ARRIVAL ONLY

Is any Australian law broken if Chris tells no one and drops his mooring one day and about 9 months later returns and picks it up again? I AM GUESSING YES

Remember Chris is not entering any other port or foreign country during this circumnavigation but clearly will be sailing in international waters.

If possible, could you back up your opinions with some reference (however minor) to the relevant Acts. SORRY WOTTIE LONG DISTANCE CALL FOR ME TO OZZIE OFFICIALS TO CONFIRM
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Old 07-10-2015, 22:43   #4
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Yes, according to the Australian Maritime safety authority:
"A vessel on the high seas is, under international law, required to have nationality."

https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels/ship...oats/index.asp
While Chris is not argumentative, Chris certainly is pedantic and after reading the AMSA link notes that it is some international law that might be broken rather than an Australian law. So presumably should this go to trial, Chris might have to travel to The Hague to be prosecuted by some international prosecution committee or some such. Chris has never been in the northern hemisphere and wonders what it will be like crossing the line...
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Old 07-10-2015, 22:48   #5
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
OK.. I'll play and start guessing answers in your quote
Thanks and Chris appreciates your guesses, but Chris thinks that contacting Ozzie officials for confirmation is likely to result in getting what they want Chris to do rather than what minimum requirements might legally apply.

Chris is suspicious of guv'met men
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Old 07-10-2015, 22:53   #6
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

As already indicated, the answer is 'yes' to all of them and no, it's not it's not international law he would be breaking it's Australian Federal Law he would be breaking. Of course, he'd have to get caught.

I don't have time to do all the home work, you can do that yourself easy enough, but like a recent chappy in Queensland who tried to sail to Fiji, one will get in trouble for departing without clearance.

Remember Jessica Watson, did exactly what your friend did and the very first people on her vessel on her return before anyone else was 'Customs', who then cleared her back in.

(psst, if your friend wants a hand to get ready let him know I'd be happy to help, but don't tell anyone)
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Old 07-10-2015, 23:26   #7
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
This is purely an hypothetical question which is why it is in the Challenges forum.

And so I am looking for hypothetical responses from armchair sea lawyers .

So my Aussie mate Chris (nice gender neutral name) is planning to sail solo non-stop unassisted around the world on a second hand SS36 aptly called "Once 'Rounder". Chris is planning to depart (and return to) from a small harbour in northern Tasmania and doesn't have a current passport and Once 'Rounder is not on the Aussie shipping register. Chris has state registration for the boat and Chris has a Tasmanian boating licence.

Now Chris wants to do everything legal like but only wants to comply with the absolute minimum of requirements.

Some of the things Chris would like to know is:

Is a passport required?
Does the boat need to be put on the Aussie shipping register?
Do Customs need to clear the boat and skipper on departure?
Do Customs need to clear the boat on arrival?
Do AQIS need to be informed re departure and arrival?
Yes x 5.... he will be clearing out for 'high seas'... same same mother ships going out to take cargo from distant fishing fleets

Is any Australian law broken if Chris tells no one and drops his mooring one day and about 9 months later returns and picks it up again? dunno

Remember Chris is not is not planning on entering any other port or foreign country during this circumnavigation but clearly will be sailing in international waters.

If possible, could you back up your opinions with some reference (however minor) to the relevant Acts. Would Corinthians do?
A bloke turned up in Pto Williams a few years ago with no passport on Berserk... don't think the yacht had papers either... was 'interesting'
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Old 08-10-2015, 00:02   #8
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
As already indicated, the answer is 'yes' to all of them and no, it's not it's not international law he would be breaking it's Australian Federal Law he would be breaking. Of course, he'd have to get caught.

I don't have time to do all the home work, you can do that yourself easy enough, but like a recent chappy in Queensland who tried to sail to Fiji, one will get in trouble for departing without clearance.

Remember Jessica Watson, did exactly what your friend did and the very first people on her vessel on her return before anyone else was 'Customs', who then cleared her back in.

(psst, if your friend wants a hand to get ready let him know I'd be happy to help, but don't tell anyone)
Chris thanks you for your input
Regarding the requirement that the boat be registered, the AMSA link that SWL posted was pretty clear it was required under International Law but beyond that it wasn't specific. Do you know what Aussie Fedral Law applies?
AFAIK, the shipping act doesnt apply.
The question isn't about JW or others or what you and I might do, rather what is the absolute minimum requirements to stay legal?

As an aside, do we know if the recent Qld chappie cleared out or not?
Another aside, technically AQIS should be first onboard, not Customs (Border Force). In fact AQIS can prevent Customs from boarding if they so desire.
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Old 08-10-2015, 00:13   #9
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Chris thanks you for your input
Regarding the requirement that the boat be registered, the AMSA link that SWL posted was pretty clear it was required under International Law but beyond that it wasn't specific. Do you know what Aussie Fedral Law applies?
AFAIK, the shipping act doesnt apply.
The question isn't about JW or others or what you and I might do, rather what is the absolute minimum requirements to stay legal?

As an aside, do we know if the recent Qld chappie cleared out or not?
Another aside, technically AQIS should be first onboard, not Customs (Border Force). In fact AQIS can prevent Customs from boarding if they so desire.
It is required internationaly under (local) law(s).... front anywhere paperless and you will be in the pooo
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Old 08-10-2015, 00:24   #10
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Chris thanks you for your input
Regarding the requirement that the boat be registered, the AMSA link that SWL posted was pretty clear it was required under International Law but beyond that it wasn't specific. Do you know what Aussie Fedral Law applies?
AFAIK, the shipping act doesnt apply.
The question isn't about JW or others or what you and I might do, rather what is the absolute minimum requirements to stay legal?

As an aside, do we know if the recent Qld chappie cleared out or not?
Another aside, technically AQIS should be first onboard, not Customs (Border Force). In fact AQIS can prevent Customs from boarding if they so desire.
I'm Ted, he's Chris but I respond to anything.

Why do you say the Shipping Act doesn't apply?

The Queensland chappie didn't no. They weren't sure what was going to happen, but I'd be guessing he got a warning.

I'm not really knowledgeable about whether AQIS board first or customs. I just know that in lots of places customs do quarantine stuff.

I'm not doing anything so I'll go look for the legislation for you.
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Old 08-10-2015, 00:41   #11
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
.... Do you know what Aussie Fedral Law applies?.
It is the well known Aussie Feral Law!

It(Chris) either needs to be documented and tagged or he will end up strapped to the bumper of someone's Ute.
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Old 08-10-2015, 00:51   #12
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Well, whilst I wait for your reply on why you think the Shipping Act does not apply, I'll suggest there are quite a number of laws he hypothetically can breach.

Shipping Registration Act 1981 section 68, for not being listed.

Customs Act 1901 Part VB for not advising of intention of leaving, but I'm fairly certain there are other offences in this act that covers other items he would have on the vessel as well regarding declarations. But that's a big read to be certain with them. There's alcohol, cash, poisons, dangerous goods (e.g LP Gas)..

And then there is the Way's and Means Act of 1979 which is what the Fed's use when they can't find anything else and you have pissed them off. The following is a pdf about making reports for sail boats and private planes.


http://www.border.gov.au/Cargosuppor...cs_exp_7_0.pdf
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Old 08-10-2015, 01:28   #13
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

And I forgot this one.

Quarantine Act 1908 applies to any vessel extending beyond the 12 mile limit and thus they must comply with it. that's where your bio security staff comes into it. The master of a yacht must comply with sections 27A and 28 of the act.

ok, got to go cook the boss dinner.. might get lucky tonight
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:15   #14
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
...
Shipping Registration Act 1981 section 68, for not being listed.

Customs Act 1901 Part VB for not advising of intention of leaving, but I'm fairly certain there are other offences in this act that covers other items he would have on the vessel as well regarding declarations. But that's a big read to be certain with them. There's alcohol, cash, poisons, dangerous goods (e.g LP Gas)..

And then there is the Way's and Means Act of 1979 which is what the Fed's use when they can't find anything else and you have pissed them off. The following is a pdf about making reports for sail boats and private planes.


http://www.border.gov.au/Cargosuppor...cs_exp_7_0.pdf
Section 68 seems to refer to vessels and masters departing Australia for a place outside Australia. Chris isn't doing this. Chris is departing a mooring in a small bay to sail back to the very same mooring.

As for the Customs act, it Chris has no intention of leaving Australia; Chris is going from Australia to Australia. In fact, he is not even at any recognised port.

Say some more about Ways and Means
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:17   #15
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
And I forgot this one.

Quarantine Act 1908 applies to any vessel extending beyond the 12 mile limit and thus they must comply with it. that's where your bio security staff comes into it. The master of a yacht must comply with sections 27A and 28 of the act.

ok, got to go cook the boss dinner.. might get lucky tonight
Yep, it certainly seems Chris has to comply with this act.
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