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Old 08-10-2015, 11:18   #31
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

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Originally Posted by grantmc View Post
Something to add to the mix. All the responses have assumed Chris is an Ozzie national..
That's why he changed his name to Madé. He is really from Indonesia.:what:
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Old 08-10-2015, 12:02   #32
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Chris must have a great deal of faith in his vessel, to presume that he will not be FORCED to enter a foreign port or foreign waters, in need of repairs or assistance. The mythical "prudent mariner" knows it is a big world out there, and as the captain of the Faro so recently found out, "**** happens".


I wonder what percent of solo circumnavigators have either been forced into port, or chosen to enter port, somewhere along the way, when their initial plan was simply to stay out at sea?
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Old 08-10-2015, 14:49   #33
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Hi

Not sea lawyer but sailed Northern Australia. Exited 3 times, entered 4 times. The extra is with a boat I bought in Thailand.

That is relevant because here the Coast WAtch planes are highly visible.

That will be the stumbling block for anyone leaving/entering without correct clearances.

The coast watch plane takes photos of ALL vessels
It calls most vessels and buzzes some

Your friend, Chris, cannot be a hundred miles from his home port, heading for New Zeland and give the Coast Watch a satisfactory answer.

My bet is that no one will chase him but sure as death and taxes, he will be put on a database and his return noted.

He will have a police reception, guaranteed.

There is ZERO chance that he can make such a trip without a passport being required by someone, somewhere.

But hey, you said it was a challenge so when he/she leaves give me a heads up. I would like to keep an eye on the news and see how far he got.

Emphatic, pedantic, opinionated and negative as the above sounds, I still wish you the best of luck

cheers

julius
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Old 08-10-2015, 16:23   #34
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

This is an interesting read.

Say this Chris character decides to just go visit Lord Howe Island for a while instead. What changes? Noonsite says that although there is no requirement to formally clear in to Lord Howe on arrival (Lord Howe is a protectorate of NSW i.e. just another part of Australia), it is still a requirement to clear out of Australia when departing for the island.

Again, according to noonsite, "Clearing out can only be done at one of the ports of entry. The documents needed to get Customs clearance are passports, crew list, list of ship's stores and registration certificate. Australian yachts must be registered before leaving Australia."

I'd guess that whilst in international waters it would be theoretically possible to travel without passport or national registration. Getting to and from there from within Australian waters could be somewhat challenging, however, thanks to Border Protection, Coastwatch and other "Big Brother" technologies. Maybe not when leaving so much, but certainly on return.

Now that was the theory. Practically Chris would be a fool not to have the appropriate documentation in the event of having to make an unscheduled stop. Just as much a fool as one who does not take lifejackets, life rafts and EPIRBS etc.
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Old 08-10-2015, 16:41   #35
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

[QUOTE=Rustic Charm;1932362] That's funny, I'd love to be in court when Chris tries that one on the judge..

68 Unregistered ships not to leave Australia
(1) An unregistered ship shall not depart from an Australian port to a place outside Australia.

'A place outside Australia' is immediately at 12.05 miles from shore.. This is not Dr Who where you go into a third dimension. You can't leave Australia and not be somewhere.. And you certainly can't sail around the world and not be leaving Australia to do it..
Continuing in the hypothetical if the above applies then ever time we cruise North QLD from Brisbane we leave Australia without proper documentation or clearance.
"Shore" mainland or Island??
Chris(not the planing RTW)
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Old 08-10-2015, 17:05   #36
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Based on other circumnavigation stories, I would say there is a better than even chance the boat may have to put in for repair somewhere or for some other reason. For this, there needs to be sufficient documentation showing clear ownership of the vessel and a passport for the skipper.
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Old 08-10-2015, 17:10   #37
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

[QUOTE=Mirage Gecko;1932864]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
That's funny, I'd love to be in court when Chris tries that one on the judge..

68 Unregistered ships not to leave Australia
(1) An unregistered ship shall not depart from an Australian port to a place outside Australia.

'A place outside Australia' is immediately at 12.05 miles from shore.. This is not Dr Who where you go into a third dimension. You can't leave Australia and not be somewhere.. And you certainly can't sail around the world and not be leaving Australia to do it..

Continuing in the hypothetical if the above applies then ever time we cruise North QLD from Brisbane we leave Australia without proper documentation or clearance.
"Shore" mainland or Island??
Chris(not the planing RTW)
Technically YES, under the Quarantine Act for example it specifically states this. But, the authorities simply recognise that many vessels sail outside our 'territorial' waters as part of their sailing and simply don't act on it. I've been 100 miles off the South Australian border. But I was simply transversing from one part of Australia to another. I did post a pdf from the Gov that stated this too somewhere earlier in the thread.
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Old 08-10-2015, 17:14   #38
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Here is an excerpt from the US Border Agency. I would think that Australia would be similar but that is just a guess.
Quote:
Any small pleasure vessel leaving a United States port into international or foreign waters, without a call at a foreign port, does not satisfy the foreign departure requirement. Therefore, certain fishing vessels, cruises to nowhere, or any vessel that leaves from a United States port and returns without calling a foreign port or place, has not departed the United States.
There is no time limit or distance specified.

Edit: Add URL
http://www.cbp.gov/travel/pleasure-b...boat-overview#
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Old 08-10-2015, 17:21   #39
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

You are more than 12.05 miles offshore when sailing from TI to Darwin and when sailing from Port Phillip to Devonport..... just saying

Some may remember the Van Gogh incident in 1968....
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Old 08-10-2015, 17:34   #40
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Here is an excerpt from the US Border Agency. I would think that Australia would be similar but that is just a guess.

There is no time limit or distance specified.

Edit: Add URL
Pleasure Boat Reporting Requirements | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

that's funny.. the excerpt is almost word for word as one contained in the pdf relating to Australia. I bet we pinched the wording off your US advice.

But, I'd also point out, in relation to our Australian circumstances, such advice doesn't have to specify a distance or limit. It's simply covering for transits and fishing that go outside territorial boundaris.
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Old 08-10-2015, 17:34   #41
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
You are more than 12.05 miles offshore when sailing from TI to Darwin and when sailing from Port Phillip to Devonport..... just saying

Some may remember the Van Gogh incident in 1968....
Doesn't mean it's legal, just that they aren't bothering you over it.

A 4-5hr sail that get's 12 miles offshore is likely to be taken much differently from a 3month round the world.
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Old 08-10-2015, 17:38   #42
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
You are more than 12.05 miles offshore when sailing from TI to Darwin and when sailing from Port Phillip to Devonport..... just saying

Some may remember the Van Gogh incident in 1968....
There's also a 24 mile contiguous zone

Maritime Boundary Definitions - Geoscience Australia
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Old 08-10-2015, 17:43   #43
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

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There's also a 24 mile contiguous zone

Maritime Boundary Definitions - Geoscience Australia

Yep.. that's almost like a 'buffer'. Given water is not like land where you can have a solid border or fence. Almost like a no man's land where others can enter and are permitted to do so but as long as there is no other intent.
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Old 08-10-2015, 18:06   #44
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Re home trade journeys made far outside the twelve mile limit I have made trips from Seward Alaska to SF. without custom/immigration requirements.

If I remember correctly.... is there not also an understanding of a country's "Area of Responsibility" ?

Often bounded by their continental shelf or some other zone 2-300 mm out....
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Old 08-10-2015, 18:23   #45
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Re: Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

Fremantle to Bass Strait ports by great circle..... ships don't 'clear out' for that trip....
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