Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-02-2013, 15:37   #46
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Abandoning Ship

After all the things that the Vendee Globe racers have hit on this current race I wouldn't put my faith in anything but an emergency rudder.
__________________

__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 17:53   #47
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,888
Re: Abandoning Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
After all the things that the Vendee Globe racers have hit on this current race I wouldn't put my faith in anything but an emergency rudder.
I think it all depends how they are built.

If you hang a light weight spade rudder way out there in harm’s way… then you are just creating the problem.

My Rudder is well protected and balanced, 80% filled with diesel oil to maintain neutral buoyancy.

Have surfed down following seas, needing only a light touch to correct the sheer.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Prop DSC_0018.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	241.1 KB
ID:	54523  
__________________

__________________
Pelagic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 18:03   #48
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead

Any emergency tiller is better than no steering.

None of them are long enough. Need to lash fender boards or boat hooks to it to get the necessary leverage.

Anybody practice with their emergency tillers? Me neither. Something worth doing, I think.
I have, the results were not promising

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 18:05   #49
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor
As in line with boatman... I would never second guess any others decision to abandon... That said... same answers as most... lay/heave/lash wait...

To make others aware of this option... bridle a drogue and steer with that until repairs can be performed....
Ever done that , have ya !!!

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 18:08   #50
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Abandoning Ship

IMOCA rudders are not all that bad: most of the time there are two, they tend to have security flip-up of some sort, and many designs have the foils easily accessible. Much can be done in an emergency. Last but not least, their skippers' skills, stamina and determination tend to be way beyond those of an average cruiser.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 18:11   #51
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
People who have radios / emails / EPIRBS / liferafts will tend to make decisions that involve such items. Perhaps sometimes such decisions seem less than optimal.


b.
That's a bit like saying that people with sails go sailing.

As to rational/ irrational behaviour, I'm sure many delivery skippers here had funny /crazy things done or suggested by crew when they got frightened.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 18:17   #52
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Abandoning Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
That's a bit like saying that people with sails go sailing.

As to rational/ irrational behaviour, I'm sure many delivery skippers here had funny /crazy things done or suggested by crew when they got frightened.

Dave
Yes, it is.

I noticed that sometimes saying something aloud creates a ripple.

Not that I will make my opinions a religion.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 18:20   #53
Registered User
 
mbianka's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,125
Images: 1
Re: Abandoning Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
No second guessing here.. just what I'd likely do in the given situation with weather as described...
As soon as I discovered the fix was not immeadiate I'd have fitted the emergeny tiller then hove to on the favourable tack.. most likely to keep me moving W.
Then... head below eat and rest up...
I'm a great beliver in sleeping on a problem in weather once there's control after a fashion...
When the weathers eased... trace and repair if possible... if not scavage blocks, shackles and line and rig a pully system...
The panic's over, shes riding easy...
take your time and experiment..
Similar thing happened to me last year.. emergency tiller was below in the aft cabin under the queen double, and with zero visual anywhere... luckily the oil re-fill/top-up worked but it had me getting the thinking cap out thats for sure.
Could be something you should do to while away the rest of winter... its one thing to know you have one...
something else when you have to use it...
can you make yours less hardship to use..?
I do like your thinking Boatman. Ideas and solutions always seem better with a rested mind.
__________________
Capt. Mike
mbianka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 18:30   #54
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Abandoning Ship

+1! from me too.

I noticed that staying with the issue for a moment turns the mind from finding ways to escape to finding ways to solve and 'just do it'.

Probably some basic psychological fact, but came as a big eye-opener to me after our knock-down.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 19:06   #55
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Abandoning Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Ever done that , have ya !!!

Dave
It's an EZ set up!
You tie two lines to the drogue with the drogue in the middle, and hang them over the side P/S just forward of the cockpit using the spinnaker blocks and a pair of winches.
When you hoist the drogue to the port side the boat turns to port, and visa versa for stbd.
It's the caterpillar effect.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 19:11   #56
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey

It's an EZ set up!
You tie two lines to the drogue with the drogue in the middle, and hang them over the side P/S just forward of the cockpit using the spinnaker blocks and a pair of winches.
When you hoist the drogue to the port side the boat turns to port, and visa versa for stbd.
It's the caterpillar effect.
I seen and used series drogues to help the rudder. I e never seen it used successfully instead of the rudder

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 19:13   #57
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Abandoning Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I noticed that staying with the issue for a moment turns the mind from finding ways to escape to finding ways to solve and 'just do it'.

b.
I agree with that. But also take time at sea if theres a problem.
Sometimes the 'fix' isnt obvious, isnt easy etc. Its probably very easy to becaome overwhelmed and hit the EPIRB.
But it may be better to ride the storm out, have a sleep or two, have a few good meals and then see if the problem can be sorted out.

Jury rigging a mast when dismasted etc may take a week or more to build something that makes you go 2 knots.
A jury rig rudder made from spars, doors etc may take a week too. With my carpentry prolly 2weeks

Not many emergencies need to be tackled at that precise moment.. Take time, think it through. If you have sat email etc , instead of ringing the kids, email the forum and get some advice... and encouragement!

Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 19:18   #58
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Abandoning Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I seen and used series drogues to help the rudder. I e never seen it used successfully instead of the rudder

Dave
It wouldn't be a replacement, but just for steering a boat until the orig'l is fixed/replaced. Emergency steering only.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 19:23   #59
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,040
Images: 1
Re: Abandoning Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
It's an EZ set up!
You tie two lines to the drogue with the drogue in the middle, and hang them over the side P/S just forward of the cockpit using the spinnaker blocks and a pair of winches.
When you hoist the drogue to the port side the boat turns to port, and visa versa for stbd.
It's the caterpillar effect.
I have seen the same idea just using a bucket. Haven't tried it.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 19:33   #60
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,040
Images: 1
Re: Abandoning Ship

Some friends lost their rudder 600 miles from Lahaina in the 2000 Vic-Maui race. They rigged their required emergency rudder and finished the race with not much time to spare.

I do tend to fit the emergency tiller when doing boat orientations before charters or classes.
__________________

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.