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Old 28-03-2017, 07:42   #1
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Your valued opinion please.

I'm in the process of buying and shortlisted down to two boats. Oceanis 411. Both local to me and tax paid. Both of a similar condition and age.
One has basic electronics but not repeated to nav table. So will have to spend extra sorting. The other contender has the inventory listed below. My dilemma is which boat to aim for.

Are the electronics below quite suitable or will I have to upgrade some of it?
I've googled and googled and some of the stuff is no longer for sale which tells me it's dated? B and G seems high quality. Is it compatable with their new stuff?

Is it pretty standard compatible connectable to new technology as i would like to add some sort of 3D tealview sonar/plotter but that's not immediately important.

Or should I try and get the other boat cheaper and just start from fresh. The budget would allow this but then I'd have to be careful about spending on other systems. Tho the rigging and sails are fairly new on both.

Brain is scrambled from it all any advice or opinion would be muchly appreciated.
Thanks
John

Navigation Equipment:

B and G Network Quad Log/ speed, depth
B and G Network wind speed and direction
B & G Network Auto pilot
B and G 6 colour GPS/Plotter
Radar
Radar detector
Firdell Blipper radar reflector
VHF with hawk antenna and extra cockpit speaker
Compass
Simrad CR 34 (2004), all navigation data is connected into the Simrad chart plotter
All repeated in cockpit
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Old 28-03-2017, 07:53   #2
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

For passages I very rarely go behind the wheel at all. So having the instruments below would be a great advantage for me.

If the are in both places and you need to replace them at least you have a cable to pull thru on the old cable. Makes a near impossible job easy.
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Old 28-03-2017, 08:14   #3
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

When I upgraded my electronics last year, I replaced the chart plotter at the helm, but just removed the unit at the chart table. The unit at the helm has WiFi, so I use an iPad to display it anywhere on the boat.
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Old 28-03-2017, 08:27   #4
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

To me, calling out a single piece of equipment's year (2004) suggest the others are older. The price they increase the boat by should be minimal to none. The new B&G gear does do some neat stuff and is "better," but not necessarily revolutionary (i.e., new and old display depth, speed through water, wind speed and wind direction). You might have trouble getting updated charts on an old chartplotter, which might be of some concern to you.

It suppose this is really a personal choice. Are you in the mood to drop 10k on the newest stuff or do you want to spread it out over a few years? If you're just coastal sailing, the old equipment will get you around just fine. Heck, people have done a lot more than coastal sailing using a lot older stuff. Electronics, including the radar, do have a limited useful life, beyond which they could break at any point and they won't be easily fixed. When this happens, if you're close to home, then it is easily replaced and not really a big deal.

If you're about to venture to far away places, perhaps you should be more inclined to upgrade sooner rather than later. Maybe having the existing cables will make running the new ones easier (you will be replacing all the cables, along with the actual equipment). But maybe not.

My closing thoughts: I'd pick the boat that has the better engine and/or has been better maintained. If they are really equal otherwise and you're not looking to immediately change all the electronics, then get the boat with the old stuff. Learn what you like and slowly upgrade.
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Old 28-03-2017, 08:36   #5
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jibstay View Post
When I upgraded my electronics last year, I replaced the chart plotter at the helm, but just removed the unit at the chart table. The unit at the helm has WiFi, so I use an iPad to display it anywhere on the boat.
My thinking was to do just the exact opposite. Have the chart plotter down below and use the wifi to use a tablet in the cockpit. I'm thinking that it would be easier to clear the cockpit of electronics for security reasons this way when anchored/docked.
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Old 28-03-2017, 09:05   #6
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

All valid and helpful replies thank you.
I do like the idea of wifi for iPad connection. I use my iPad all the time so would be a nice add on.

I'll only be coastal sailing for a year or two before I go a bit further so I suppose either or are contenders. The boat without the electronics has just had out of water survey and anti foul done by reputable worker and surveyor and available for me to scrutinise.

I think I'll put v low offers on both and increase by 500 a time until one of them accepts?

Leave it up to fate
Thanks
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Old 28-03-2017, 09:12   #7
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

Electronics aside, I would opt for having a surveyor or at least a very knowledgeable friend to look both over carefully and determine which is in better structural/mechanical shape and don't forget to compare the condition of the sail and sail inventory. These items could easily exceed the price of new electronics and way more important in the long run.
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Old 28-03-2017, 09:13   #8
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

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Originally Posted by johnyhask View Post
I think I'll put v low offers on both and increase by 500 a time until one of them accepts?
Not sure I'd bid on both at the same time. I'm also not sure you'd end up annoying the seller/broker with real low ball offer with small increases.

Honestly think about what you are willing to pay, put in a reasonable, but low offer on the boat with the electronics, and go from there. If it gets past your limit, then go to the other boat. That's how I would play it.

To each their own. Fun times.

Oh, by the way, most would suggest you get a survey before purchasing no matter if a survey was just completed. Your insurance may even require it.
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Old 28-03-2017, 09:38   #9
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

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Originally Posted by dwedeking2 View Post
My thinking was to do just the exact opposite. Have the chart plotter down below and use the wifi to use a tablet in the cockpit. I'm thinking that it would be easier to clear the cockpit of electronics for security reasons this way when anchored/docked.


I considered that, but decided to install the chart plotter at the helm because it's waterproof and easier to read in full sun.
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Old 28-03-2017, 10:11   #10
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

A few points
Got to agree with the above on the engine comment, any history is always helpful to a 10 to 15 year old production boat
on top of that over all maintenance is a great guide
Electronics are updating so quickly, 5 years,and some things are no longer compatible.
iPad below- imo - as charging is still not water proof at the helm and if you plan to be sailing in your area for the next few seasons, AIS radar and plotter on a decent size split screen at the helm is far easier than dashing below every five minutes, 6 " is a min
Are the rigs the same, I hate in mast reefing but some love it
I think there are a lot more points that would sway which one rather than electronics
All the best with your decision
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Old 28-03-2017, 14:39   #11
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

We have an Oceanis 411 in South West Ireland with the original B&G Network instruments as well as some newer bits we've added. We can get all data downstairs and almost everything upstairs. It's really nice to have both. All the new bits happily talk to all the old bits using NMEA-0183 but we are starting to install NMEA-2000 for future upgrades.

Repairs and replacements for the B&G Network instruments can be got from Tinley Marine Electronics Service and their associated company A and T Instruments.

I'd suggest you choose your boat based on the condition of the rest of it, the instruments are far easier to repair and/or upgrade than pretty well any structural problem.

If you want to ask me any 411 specific questions feel free to send me a PM.

Cheers,

Aedan
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Old 28-03-2017, 16:32   #12
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

Thanks Aedan and others. I'm sure you haven't heard the last of me yet lol. Both boats are absolutely mint condition and obviously been well looked after. One has in mast reefing the other has lazy jacks. I don't mind either. Going to have a proper look at boat with electronics with a knowledgable mate on Thursday. I'll just have to then decide between the two as which to offer. Obviously pending survey.
Brilliant. Can't wait to move aboard. I've already started throwing all of my junk away. That in itself is so liberating.
Cheers folks.
Good times
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Old 28-03-2017, 16:35   #13
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AedanC View Post
We have an Oceanis 411 in South West Ireland with the original B&G Network instruments as well as some newer bits we've added. We can get all data downstairs and almost everything upstairs. It's really nice to have both. All the new bits happily talk to all the old bits using NMEA-0183 but we are starting to install NMEA-2000 for future upgrades.

Repairs and replacements for the B&G Network instruments can be got from Tinley Marine Electronics Service and their associated company A and T Instruments.

I'd suggest you choose your boat based on the condition of the rest of it, the instruments are far easier to repair and/or upgrade than pretty well any structural problem.

If you want to ask me any 411 specific questions feel free to send me a PM.

Cheers,

Aedan


Thanks Aedan. Saving all this great advice for future reference. How have you found your 411. I've done some serious research and apparently over 1000 were made and sold and could find any mention of major design faults or anything too negative. How have you found yours? Best bits and things you would change etc.
Thanks
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Old 28-03-2017, 19:51   #14
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

If you haven't already decided, I'd surely take a look at the sails, as well. It sounds to me like you need bargaining chips.

Ann
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Old 29-03-2017, 08:36   #15
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Re: Your valued opinion please.

The B and G Network series is really old and uses an early version of NMEA 0183. When I talked to B and G about my set of instruments they said that B&G no longer supports them and they may or may not interface with other more modern 0183 instruments.

Buy the boat in the best condition not the best instruments. As you upgrade the instruments on either boat you will find that putting repeaters below may not be necessary as modern B&G have Wifi and will repeat to an iPad or iPhone.
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