With Handheld VHF with DSC any need for fixed unit?

[rivonia]

Originally Posted by ElGatoGordo

Regardless of who's correct here, you cannot say LIAR and "This is not meant to be offensive..." in the same post!

Let's see some documentation...as I cannot find anything to back up your stand, while another has posted a link that says one MMSI per boat.

EDIT: HAHA nice edit!

You are correct and I edited my reply as I also afterwards found my original to be offensive.

Just cannot believe that people here are second guessing.

Peter

[LJH]

While it may be prudent to have separate MMSI numbers for your handheld radios it is not compulsory.

For those in the US here is the BoatUS answer.

I have a handheld radio on board my boat.* Should it have it's own MMSI number?

If you plan to use the handheld on other boats, you might want a separate MMSI number so that you can update the registration according to which boat it is currently on. If you plan to use it only on one boat, you can use the same MMSI number as the fixed radio.

For those in other countries, national policy may follow the ITU Recommendation below..

RECOMMENDATION ITU-R M.585-6

Assignment of identities for handheld VHF transceivers with digital elective calling and global navigation satellite system.

1 A handheld VHF transceiver with DSC and GNSS may require a unique identification showing that this device has restricted battery capacity and restricted coverage area. This may give additional information in an emergency case.

2 The handheld VHF transceiver with DSC and GNSS should be used exclusively in the maritime mobile service.

3 Handheld VHF transceiver with DSC and GNSS participating in the maritime mobile service should be assigned a unique 9-digit number in the format 81M2I3D4X5X6X7X8X9 where digits 2, 3 and 4 represents the MID and X is any figure from 0 to 9. The MID represents the administration assigning the identity to the handheld transceiver.

81M2I3D4X5X6X7X8X9

4 The procedure and criteria for assignment and registration of these identities should be left to the administration concerned.

5 Some minimum of procedures for registration of this identity should be observed:

a) all identities in this category should be registered by the national authority concerned, and the local RCC or MRCC should be able to access the data on a 24 hour-per-day, 7 days-perweek basis. In systems that have automatic distress priority, this information should be automatically forwarded to an RCC;
b) the reuse of this identity should follow the guidance of Annex 3 of this Recommendation.

6 The administration may use the 5th digit to differentiate between certain specific uses/users of the maritime identity. However, this method is optional and for national use only.

[rivonia]

OOP's I put my foot in it big time here So sorry. I was quoting the UK Maritime Law. It would appear that the good old USA has it's own system.


Peter

[GeoPowers]

Well in spite of all the eye rolling and head banging I learned something also. Apparently in the UK the MMSI is specific to the radio and not the vessel?

From the below website:

• Do I need a special licence? Will my existing Ship Radio Licence cover it? Must I vary my existing licence?

You must have a separate Ship Portable Radio Licence for each hand held VHF DSC radio. This is because each individual radio is given a separate identity. The apparatus must not be used outwith UK territorial sea. So, it cannot be covered by a normal Ship Radio Licence, as this does not impose any territorial restrictions. If you already have a Ship Portable Radio Licence, you should ensure that it includes hand held VHF DSC. If it does not, you can change it online, free of charge.

Ofcom | Hand held VHF DSC FAQs

also: Licensing Onboard Electronics | Regulations & Safety | Information & Advice | RYA


Frank

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by LJH

The MMSI is unique to the vessel you may use the same number in several radios.

That is what I thought ... MMSI is registered to the vessel really. I could not find definite reference to one MMSI on one boat on multiple radios. Thanks for the confirmation!

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by rivonia

OK.. Heres the info.... A hand held VHF Radio CANNOT be programmed with a ships radoi MMSI number Period! DSC is specifc

The VHF Radio MMSI number begins with a letter T. It is MANDATORY

Peter

I have no idea what you are talking about. I have MMSI and it starts with digit ... actually the first 3 digits are country code. You might be talking about fleet MMSI which is not something we, the individual boaters, are concerned with.

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by GeoPowers

This info is wrong. As posted before, the MMSI is specific to the vessel, not the radio. For example, I have a fixed unit and handheld VHF both with the same MMSI.

The Standard Horizon HX850 is a nice radio that would meet your needs.

Frank

Thanks for confirmation ... looks like there are different opinions here. I wonder who is just talking and who is doing what they say ...

I like the Standard Horizon HX850 as well ... that is the h/h radio I want to program and therefore seeking confirmation on MMSI.

[Richard_W]

@LJH and GeoPowers

Thanks for sorting this out ... appreciated!

[LJH]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

That is what I thought ... MMSI is registered to the vessel really. I could not find definite reference to one MMSI on one boat on multiple radios. Thanks for the confirmation!

Richard,

Here is a reference for you.

Maritime Mobile Service Identity Reminder Public Notice | FCC.gov

Vessel owners must obtain an MMSI prior to using a DSC radio, shipborne universal AIS transponder, or INMARSAT ship earth station.4 All equipment on the vessel, including handheld VHF-DSC radios, must use the same MMSI. How a vessel owner obtains an MMSI depends on whether the ship station requires a license from the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) or is instead licensed by rule.

[Richard_W]

Great ... the ultimate authority for folks in the USA has spoken.
I've just downloaded the PDF for future reference ... thank you LJH!

BTW, my MMSI is Canadian as my boat is registered (or licensed in Canadian lingo) there. Regardless, I bet that the same MMSI rule applies in Canada as this seems to be the most logical and pragmatic approach.

@simonpickard
Sorry for hijacking the topic for a moment. Going back to your question ...

It is a great idea IMHO to have both, fixed and h/h, DSC radios on the boat. If you have to ditch the boat you can still keep your h/h radio and continue to communicate with SAR, or like in your scenario, the MOB in possession of h/h radio can issue MAYDAY very easily on DSC VHF, or call your boat if conscious and aware enough.

[Nicholson58]

We have big (25W) radio with AIS and DSC at the nav station with remote RAM hand set at the binacle. We also have a 5Watt floater. I figure that anything loose will eventually go swimming. Antenna is +80 feet and we hear everything. Anyone leaving with the dinghy takes the floater.

[LJH]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

Great ... the ultimate authority for folks in the USA has spoken.
I've just downloaded the PDF for future reference ... thank you LJH!

BTW, my MMSI is Canadian as my boat is registered (or licensed in Canadian lingo) there. Regardless, I bet that the same MMSI rule applies in Canada as this seems to be the most logical and pragmatic approach.

@simonpickard
Sorry for hijacking the topic for a moment. Going back to your question ...

It is a great idea IMHO to have both, fixed and h/h, DSC radios on the boat. If you have to ditch the boat you can still keep your h/h radio and continue to communicate with SAR, or like in your scenario, the MOB in possession of h/h radio can issue MAYDAY very easily on DSC VHF, or call your boat if conscious and aware enough.

In that case from Transport Canada

Maritime Mobile Service Identity (MMSI) - Transport Canada
4.3 Ship Station MMSI

Ship Station is by far the most common MMSI category. These comprise well over 95% of all MMSIs assigned by Industry Canada. The basic assignment principle for Ship Station MMSIs is that the same identity applies to all radio equipment on board the vessel. This consistency has to be maintained to the extent possible.

[barnakiel]

HH VHF with DSC as a MOB beacon very limited by range still useful. An AIS beacon better if you expect that others in your vicinity will carry an AIS receiver.

BTW Not all AIS receivers show AIS beacons.

b.

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by LJH

In that case from Transport Canada

How the heck you found that buried three levels down? Funny thing, I was there when applying for MMSI some time ago. Also, interesting how Canada (and USA?) deals with the change of ownership ... straightforward, no gray area:

In the case of a change in ownership of a vessel sold with the radio equipment that has an MMSI, the assigned MMSI number should not be changed. However, the new vessel owner must contact Industry Canada to provide MMSI ownership information changes. If the vessel or vessel ownership involves a change in the country with which the vessel is registered and MMSI assigned, then a new MMSI assigned by the country of registration is required and must be programmed into the radio equipment. If this is the case, submit a new MMSI request to IC.

[LJH]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

How the heck you found that buried three levels down? Funny thing, I was there when applying for MMSI some time ago. Also, interesting how Canada (and USA?) deals with the change of ownership ... straightforward, no gray area:

Luck I guess. I prefer TC and IC. There is a bit more paperwork with the FCC, but it is straight forward as well.

Cheers