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Old 20-07-2019, 16:54   #1
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Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

US THIRD-PARTY MESSAGES RULES NOW ARE ENFORCED BY CMS
All,

If you are a US-licensed station that routinely connects to a foreign gateway, or a non-US-licensed station that connects with a US gateway, you may be affected by new CMS behavior. The Winlink CMS now will enforce US Third-Party Message rules.

Because Winlink is being severely criticized for allowing US client and gateway operators to violate US amateur radio third-party traffic rules, we are today starting to test automatic enforcement of these rules. Part 97.3(47), 97.115 and 97.117 apply.

If you attempt to send or receive a third-party message between a US-licensed station and another station the US does not have a third-party communication agreement with, you may receive a service message saying the message will violate the applcable rules and that the message is refused (if you're sending) or being held at the CMS (if you are receiving). Alternative means to successfully send or receive the message will be explained. The US has treaties with most countries in the North and South America, but not most European, Asian and Pacific countries.

If you are a US-licensee, you should have no trouble sending and receiving to/from internet addresses if you connect with another US-licensed gateway, or one licensed in Central or South America ‚€” as long as the US has a third-party agreement with the licensing country.

If you are a non-US licensee, you should have no trouble sending and receiving to/from internet addresses if you connect to non-US licensed gateways.

We wish this was not necessary, but we have relied on US client and gateway operators to know the rules and obey them‚€”and most have ignored them, unfortunately for all of us. In order to clean up the violations we are taking these measures to keep US Winlink operators legal. All licensees have an obligation to study, know, and obey the Amateur Radio Rules.

New monitoring and enforcement measures are coming into play with the establishment of a new Volunteer Monitor Program, now being set up by the ARRL at the request of the US FCC. We're doing this to make it easier for US operators to avoid loosing their licenses!

We will be tweaking the behavior of this new mechanism to make it as friendly and informative as it can be. Please bear with us as we make changes.

Thanks and 73,

Lor W3QA
Winlink Development Team
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Old 21-07-2019, 18:25   #2
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

So this means we will be unable to get weather reports and weather gribs while cruising. Is this just my understanding?

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Old 22-07-2019, 13:05   #3
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

We are in Europe and on occasion we have had to use WinLink to tell folks we are ok as we have been unable to get internet. Is that now a thing of the past. OH and that included a 3 day sail from Russia to Ukraine that we sent out our position report and a msg once a day to a friend who was watching.


If we cross the Atlantic this fall we will be sending msg to 2 friends and a weather router along with downloading gribs twice a day. If we connect with a station in Europe will the msg not go through along with the weather request?


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Old 22-07-2019, 13:52   #4
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

This is the Winlink group discussion forum ..


Winlink-programs-group@googlegroups.com
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Old 22-07-2019, 14:48   #5
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

The ARRL summarizes the rules for US amateurs in international waters here...
Maritime Mobile Operation in International Waters

Down the left side of that page are the titles several other pages that may be of interest to US licensed amatuer radio operators.

A Winlink radio message passed as email is third party traffic.

Bill
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Old 22-07-2019, 18:16   #6
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

I have read the information from the ARRL link provided - Thanks Bill!

Still a bit cloudy on things

Can anyone explain what is allowed and what is not?

Can we use winlink to obtain weather reports from Sail Docs while offshore or in port? These are requested via winlink by us and then after reconnecting receive them via winlink. Also they can be automated and sent at a certain time of day.

Can we use winlink to send and receive emails from family and friends?

In the past 14 years of cruising on this trip we have used winlink to receive weather reports via request thru Sail Docs. Currently in French Polynesia. When I was here 25 years ago I obtained a reciprocal license. But when we arrived 4 years ago I looked it up and a reciprocal license was not required.

Thanks in advance

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Old 22-07-2019, 19:07   #7
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

I am no expert in this and hate to state my uninformed opinions, but...

The July 20-21 thread "Winlink Messages being rejected" in Winlink Programs Group https://winlink.org/content/winlink_programs_group may answer your questions.

We have lost a lot of utility (which we may have not legally had).

Bill
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Old 23-07-2019, 07:39   #8
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

Quote:
Originally Posted by AA3JY View Post
This is the Winlink group discussion forum ..


Winlink-programs-group@googlegroups.com

Hum tried to get there but do not have a google account - just want to read but everything I get from google is in Italian and I can not change the language. In a couple of weeks when I move over to France I bet it will all be in French.

I guess from what little I see and read I am going to have to get a Satphone for weather and to update position reports and tell friends where we are.

Not to be critical but is WinLink for the long range offshore cruiser basically dead?
Just asking and please do not take it the wrong way.
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Old 23-07-2019, 07:45   #9
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

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Originally Posted by chuckr View Post
Not to be critical but is WinLink for the long range offshore cruiser basically dead?
Nope..

https://winlink.org/
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Old 14-11-2019, 09:27   #10
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

test system before we leave or a crossing and did a test message to a person who is going to be our contact and we will send an update to them once a day -- IT DOES NOT WORK --


Message with ID '1735_KI4SRY' and subject 'test msg' was rejected because delivery by or to a US station on amateur radio frequencies would violate US Part 97 Third-Party Traffic rules. This message can be resent using the Internet -- using a direct telnet connection to a CMS or by using webmail after logging into your Winlink account at winlink.org. Or, by connection to a gateway in a country with a third-party traffic agreement with the US (see: Third-Party Operating Agreements).


[KI4SRY >> HB9AK >> SMTPlyoung157@gmail.com,SMTP:svsoulmates@hotmail .com]


If your message concerns an emergency or urgent medical matter, resend the message with the word 'EMERGENCY' in the subject and it will be accepted.


=====


Thanks for using Winlink, an Amateur Radio Safety Foundation


sponsored project. For more information about Winlink please


visit: https://www.winlink.org


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Old 14-11-2019, 09:28   #11
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

Quote:
Originally Posted by AA3JY View Post
Then please enlighten me on how I can send a msg to a person in the US who is our contact on a crossing --

here is what I got when I tried


Message with ID '1735_KI4SRY' and subject 'test msg' was rejected because delivery by or to a US station on amateur radio frequencies would violate US Part 97 Third-Party Traffic rules. This message can be resent using the Internet -- using a direct telnet connection to a CMS or by using webmail after logging into your Winlink account at winlink.org. Or, by connection to a gateway in a country with a third-party traffic agreement with the US (see: Third-Party Operating Agreements).
[KI4SRY >> HB9AK >> SMTPlyoung157@gmail.com,SMTP:svsoulmates@hotmail .com]
If your message concerns an emergency or urgent medical matter, resend the message with the word 'EMERGENCY' in the subject and it will be accepted.
=====
Thanks for using Winlink, an Amateur Radio Safety Foundation
sponsored project. For more information about Winlink please
visit: https://www.winlink.org
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Old 14-11-2019, 09:40   #12
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

What Winlink station were you connected to by radio? That is the critical question. If the radio station to which you were connected does not have a third-party agreement for your traffic then it will get bounced.

I'm assuming you have a US ham license (based on the KI4SRY) in the bounce response. In that case you will need to connect to a US station, or a station in a country that does have a third-party agreement with the US. You can get a list of those countries (including call sign prefixes) at the ARRL. If you select a country with a third-party agreement when you connect to Winlink with your US license then your message should pass through.

[Edit] if you are in the Med as your profile suggests; Israel, Jordan, Turkey, and the UK are likely options, with South Africa and a few other African countries also possible. [/edit]

[Edit 2] Finally saw the HB9AK in your bounce message, you were connected to a Swiss Winlink station and Switzerland does not have a 3rd-party agreement with the US. Try a station in a country that does.[/edit]

[Edit even more] saw upthread that you are/may be crossing the Atlantic. Many of the Caribbean Islands and Central/South American countries have 3rd-party agreements. As you cross these will probably provide better connections, so familiarize yourself with which ones and select them when connecting - Hey Winlink developers - maybe allow this as a selection criterion in the program? [/edit]
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Old 14-11-2019, 09:44   #13
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

this is what I got when I tried to send test msg for person watching our crossing this year


Message with ID '1735_KI4SRY' and subject 'test msg' was rejected because delivery by or to a US station on amateur radio frequencies would violate US Part 97 Third-Party Traffic rules. This message can be resent using the Internet -- using a direct telnet connection to a CMS or by using webmail after logging into your Winlink account at winlink.org. Or, by connection to a gateway in a country with a third-party traffic agreement with the US (see: Third-Party Operating Agreements).


[KI4SRY >> HB9AK >> SMTPlyoung157@gmail.com,SMTP:svsoulmates@hotmail .com]


If your message concerns an emergency or urgent medical matter, resend the message with the word 'EMERGENCY' in the subject and it will be accepted.


=====


Thanks for using Winlink, an Amateur Radio Safety Foundation


sponsored project. For more information about Winlink please


visit: https://www.winlink.org


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Old 14-11-2019, 09:48   #14
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
What Winlink station were you connected to by radio? That is the critical question. If the radio station to which you were connected does not have a third-party agreement for your traffic then it will get bounced.

I'm assuming you have a US ham license (based on the KI4SRY) in the bounce response. In that case you will need to connect to a US station, or a station in a country that does have a third-party agreement with the US. You can get a list of those countries (including call sign prefixes) at the ARRL. If you select a country with a third-party agreement when you connect to Winlink with your US license then your message should pass through.

[Edit] if you are in the Med as your profile suggests; Israel, Jordan, Turkey, and the UK are likely options, with South Africa and a few other African countries also possible. [/edit]
I do have my ham license and used a station in Swiss winlink station that I have been using for weather for the past few years. - currently in Morocco getting ready to head to canary isa and a crossing - it appears that no station in Europe has an agreement with the usa - so until I am fairly well along and can hit a usa station no msging
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Old 14-11-2019, 10:13   #15
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Re: Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced

Option B, if you legally qualify for one, it to get a ham radio license from some more lenient jurisdiction, register it with WinLink, and use that call sign when connecting. I know just suggesting that is going to get me flamed, but it is a valid option if you can do it legally.

If not, it means paying much more attention to propagation. During our crossing last year (from Cape Town) we were using a South African station until we got within a few hundred miles of Barbados. At the end we had one or two windows about an hour or two each that provided good propagation, but during those windows we had no problem making a solid, high-speed connection.
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