Windows vs Linux vs MacOS vs Others

[Alita49DS]

Been there. Every version of Windows bar Vista. Linux. Which was a fun challenge but ultimately dead in the water for decent productivity. IOS and Android. Also pretty useless for real work.

So where have I ended up? Windows 10. Does everything I need it to do. Does everything that 7 did but a whole lot better. The only problem is that somebody somewhere needs to produce something as good on a Windows tablet as iSailor is on iOS or Android.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Zven

Hmmm, I struggle to see what exactly would be the problem with those answers...? They seem precise and to the point, unlike much else on the web.

Take the "your question is not correctly asked":

I would guess this was expressed by someone relatively skilled in a certain area, who would be ready to help but sees a fundamental fault in the way you approach a problem. Like if you'd ask "how many gallons can the GPS make per hour..?"

I'd say it might be wise, then, to stay calm and prepare to learn something, rather than arguing about being pushed around.

Regarding "this question has been already answered": Great! Google is your friend then. Some forums even have their own search engines, FAQs etc.

The reason I take the time to write any of this, though, is the last item in your list:

The instruction "open the terminal window and try typing ..."

Here it seems a kind person is not only willing to help you directly, but is instructing you about exactly what to do, all the way down to what keys to press.

Help doesn't get much better than that.

If those answers are typical for the Linux community, I would say it is a good place to be.

Disclaimer: I have never tried Linux but am seriously tempted now that my Win10 system once again has forced an update and reboot overnight.

The Terminal is the fastest way to get things done in any operating system. It is also often the only way to get into the working nuts and bolts of the system. Not everything has a GUI attached to it, for good reason.

I found the Ubuntu community extremely welcoming, and peer support fantastic, much better than I was used to getting from the winDOHs world. There are very good reasons for asking you to look for the question already answered, or asking you to rephrase it so a search engine can find it easier. The whole idea of archived support is so if I spend a few hours working on someone's problem and then carefully crafting a detailed answer, it will benefit a whole bunch of people and not just one person. I do NOT give up that much of my time to someone I don't even know, who probably doesn't appreciate my hard work, who likely will just ignore my answer or fail utterly to carry out simple instructions, or go into mental gridlock when I say, "paste the code below into your terminal and hit [ENTER]... but a possibly recurring problem for which a solution might benefit many users, is worth some time and effort to solve. So it is just as important to be able to efficiently archive and reference solutions, as it is to come up with them in the first place.

Yes, Gnome and Unity and even KDE can be a little bloaty. Switching to the 32 bit version can help. The version is not strictly hardware dependent. You can run whichever version, 32 bit or 64 bit, you like, on most machines, but the 64 bit is meant to take fullest advantage of powerful computers while the 32 bit is meant to be more efficient on more modest machines. XCFE I have not tried. I am liking Unity but my laptops are all less than 5 years old so 64 bit with Unity seldom gets boggy or loggy.

I did like WinDOHs 7, actually. It really seemed a step in the right direction. Then W8 came out, and I wildly ran, screaming madly, from the passive, softly bleating MicroSheep flock, and down into the dark and mysterious canyon of Ubuntu. Soon, that dark mysterious canyon became a bright and happy, joyful alpine meadow, and I knew I had made the right choice. I can do SO MUCH MORE with Ubuntu that I couldn't do with windoze! Or even DOS! Large complex renaming operations on say 50,000 files at once, for instance. complicated conditional multiline search and replace operations spanning multiple text files. Or capturing NetFlix video. Terminal ops to download multiple youtube vids at once. Robust formatting and encryption of massive hard drives. NTFS? ROTFLMAO! They are so tender and delicate it is comical, compared to LUKS/EXT4! Much better permissions enforcement. Way better security. Ever wonder why you need antivirus software in WinDOHs? Why your computer is always getting hacked and infected? Held hostage by ransomware? A good linux distro and a reasonable amount of smart computing and "Oh no, they don't have any antivirus software for this operating system!" becomes "Whew, glad I don't have to always be worrying if my virus definitions are up to date anymore." Practically all software is open source, and therefore free. Go ahead, pay several hundred bucks for PaintShop Pro or Visual Studio or whatever. Most of the Linux apps that perform the same tasks are free, and more powerful. No more downloading dodgy "warez" from usenet when the price is unaffordable for the storebought box and disk. For Linux, it's (usually) free. Free. Freeeeeeeee!

The bleating masses can't imagine a world that has outgrown the patronizing hand of windows. They cant conceive of tasks that secret source software can't handle, or why they might ever need to perform them. They are told what their computer can do, and that becomes their soft and cozy cocoon. To seal their fate, MS spends probably half a billion dollars a year on marketing and advertising. Linux has an advertising budget of approximately, zero. The sheeple hear, and obey. The PC makers too, or else. I pay for a winDOHs license on every laptop I buy, even if I never even boot up from the OEM installed system.

Another cool thing about Linux and Terminal, is if you have a rooted android phone, you have access to a Terminal with very similar commands and capabilities on the device. Please someone say that isn't cool or useful. I really feel like calling somebody a tool today.

I would say, used to say, that if you are comfortable with the shortcomings of Windows, and afraid of change, then stick with it and love it forever. Ignorance is bliss. Unfortunately, the vulnerability, instability, and jerky quirky development chain of constant upgrades, (aided and abetted by a lot of really stupid computing practices, I admit) have cost nation, society, and business a nearly incalculable price. Yet, we have to trust a company that does not even publish their source code? The world is setting itself up for a major catastrophe by relying so heavily on such a dodgy company and operating system for so much of EVERYTHING. Serious. Computers do EVERYTHING for us these days, and 90% of them are running a seriously flawed and dangerous operating system that requires constant upkeep from IT professionals to limit the damage.

Follow the Penguin. The Penguin knows the way...

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I think a lot of people agree with you, but what will you do in 2020 when M$ no longer supports W7 with security patches? W7 is a dead end, and in a little over two years you will have to migrate somewhere or take increasing risks.

Have you tried Linux Mint? They have an XFCE edition. It is an improvement over Ubuntu IMHO. But if you really want a high WAF try Elementary OS - it is very clean and attractive, if still Linux/Ubuntu under the bonnet.

I do share your frustration with Linux: I guess they never heard the expression "it just works". OTOH there is a consistency and logic to it that can be understood; I hate trawling through the ever-changing landscape of Windows control panels to make minor changes, and now with W10 the uncontrolled updating. Ugh.

Greg

Yes, I have played around with many Linuxes (Ubuntu, XUbuntu, Mint, Debian, Minix, RHEL), Unixes (Solaris, OI...) and BSD's (FreeBSD, PC-BSD...)

I agree regardin W7, but still even with no further support I would take W7.

Imagine you are cruising the world and have no or very expensive high degraded internet connectivity via satellite to get you weather information and this stupid W10 starts calling home for updates. If you leave the system unattended it will add some 3k$ to your bill or suck up all data volume of your plan for downloading crap, syncing the Store and the apps, publishing your personal data to any rogue developer around the world you have once installed their "free" apps for a try (btw. same with Android and iOS)..

Well, with W7 you can opt out automatic updates, there is a windows advanced firewall you can block intentionally all traffic outside of your LAN and allow only access to your email provider for the GRIB while on Satellite and the essential services you really need. For all the surfing you still can use your tablets while on shore in the marinas / free WiFi etc.

Of course you can set up a decent router / firewall on board and control all the traffic in separate security zones to the sat modem, WLAN-to-shore communication and 3G/4G modem based on costs.

And you can of course block all MS / AKAMAI Targets to get rid of the update traffic in W10, disable the Store services and the modern UI subsystem and add a start button to W10 with classic shell - so then it looks and feels like a W7 and can't call communicate in the background. But this is a lot of effort to just tell the System to shut up - and you have to figure out for each useful service what IP and Ports need to be opened to communicate with the servers.

[Alita49DS]

Just for the uninformed; Windows 10 will not automatically download updates if set on a metered connection.

Like most of the arguments that W7 is better than W10, that one is entirely spurious.

[LongRange]

Ah, OS Wars - fun in any context

About three pages ago someone said words to the effect that if you have to ask you probably won't get joy out of Linux, and I agree with the sentiment. These are all mature operating systems with decades-long pedigree and very established support options. When the extremely large numbers of users are taken into account, generalisations really do make sense:

- Linux: Built by the geeky for the geeky, and that's the way they like it. For those who enjoy managing a computer as a hobby in its own right, Linux is very appealing. It is by far the most flexible and modular, but for most users it will always remain too complex and technical

- Windows: a hybrid between the hyper-open geekdom of Linux and the hyper-closed world of the Mac. Far more available software than the other two put together. Greatest level of commercial interest, and therefore the greatest level of investment in trying to appeal to as many users possible. Unsurprisingly, it has the biggest market share.

- Mac: The expensive option for those who have little interest in the computer itself, but are prepared to pay more for robust integration with a very small range of hardware devices.

All three are extremely sophisticated and excellent designs. The notion that any of them is somehow inherently faster, more stable, or more secure is just plain misguided.

People tend to misunderstand the difference between a defect/bug (something which affects ALL instances of that software) and an environmental condition which is specific to the way they have configured or maintained their machine. Troubleshooting complex problems is difficult, and left to their own devices many users will come to the conclusion that the slow/bad/dead they are experiencing most be inherent to the OS, instead of being caused by something they have installed.

Another common misconception is that the number of running services is a significant determinant of system performance, and that disabling as many services as possible is therefore the answer to performance woes. Most severe performance problems are not "Death of a thousand cuts", but instead a single component which is badly broken. Unless the service cull just happens to accidentally stumble upon that component, disabling services does almost nothing to improve performance (but it does kill functionality).

A resting process/thread takes virtually zero processor time, and all the resources which are allocated to it are temporarily made available for other purposes. 1000 well-behaved dormant services have far less impact on system performance than 1 badly-behaved device driver that the user does not know how to isolate and remove.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

Just for the uninformed; Windows 10 will not automatically download updates if set on a metered connection.

Like most of the arguments that W7 is better than W10, that one is entirely spurious.

That's a big negatory there.

https://m.slashdot.org/story/323879

Until now Windows 10 has allowed users to avoid downloading updates over metered (pay-per-byte) connections, to avoid racking up huge bills. Some users were setting their ethernet/wifi connections as metered in order to prevent Windows 10 from downloading and installing updates without their permission. In its latest preview version of the OS, Microsoft is now*forcing some updates necessary for "smooth operation" to download even on these connections. As well as irritating users who want to control when updates download and install, users of expensive pay-per-byte connections could face massive bills.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

The Linux Gnome / KDE Desktop is really a mess, totally bloated.

That's exactly why I moved to Mint/Mate.

I'm not quite sure why everyone jumped on the idea that you need to have an OS that presents the same UI on a phone as on a desktop, but it's an astoundingly stupid idea.

What I want is a desktop that presents the same UI when sitting at the console as when remoted in over VNC or when running in a VM.

And you can't have that when your windowing system depends upon fancy GPU tricks.

[leftbrainstuff]

I've run dual boot windows and linux machines for more than 10 years. At times I've had issues with windows and linux. I also use macs so have all bases covered. Macs are over priced so i let work pay for them.

Windows in all irs variants is an efficient, bloated hog with no consistency between variations. But there are numerous applications that are windows only like cad that linux is not an option for.

Linux, and unix are consistent and have many functions that are decades old, mature, stable and much more iseful than windows. I'm referring to the bash shell and command line. As a developer linux is just so much better and efficient than windows.

Funnily enough windows 10 professional runs native linux in a bash shell. Even powershell is an attempt to build a decent windows scripting option.

I'm currently having ubuntu issues on 5 year old lenovo hardware. Graphics card related and just another issue of proprietary hardware not conforming to a standard.

About every 5 years i hw refresh and end up with another windows dual boot windows linux build.

I dont get religious, like many, on oses and hardware. They're just a tool and refresh and obsolesence cant be ignored. The common thread for me is dual boot.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

I've run dual boot windows and linux machines for more than 10 years. At times I've had issues with windows and linux. I also use macs so have all bases covered. Macs are over priced so i let work pay for them.

Windows in all irs variants is an efficient, bloated hog with no consistency between variations. But there are numerous applications that are windows only like cad that linux is not an option for.

Linux, and unix are consistent and have many functions that are decades old, mature, stable and much more iseful than windows. I'm referring to the bash shell and command line. As a developer linux is just so much better and efficient than windows.

Funnily enough windows 10 professional runs native linux in a bash shell. Even powershell is an attempt to build a decent windows scripting option.

I'm currently having ubuntu issues on 5 year old lenovo hardware. Graphics card related and just another issue of proprietary hardware not conforming to a standard.

About every 5 years i hw refresh and end up with another windows dual boot windows linux build.

I dont get religious, like many, on oses and hardware. They're just a tool and refresh and obsolesence cant be ignored. The common thread for me is dual boot.

I agree, WinDOHs has an advantage when it comes to CAD software, but have you tried FreeCAD? That's what I use. it's still a mush mash of various tools and not a nice tight package, but you can do pretty much anything with it if you are resourceful. It doesn't do much hand holding LOL. I have used it for all sorts of tasks, but largely for creating files for 3D printing. I can't afford the full featured WinDOHs apps and I don't have any WinDOHs computers, anyway.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

Just for the uninformed; Windows 10 will not automatically download updates if set on a metered connection.

Like most of the arguments that W7 is better than W10, that one is entirely spurious.

That is not true, you cannot set up WiFi or LAN as metered connections in W8.1 / W10, but this is exactly what you need to - because you probably will use tethering or a G3/G4 Range extender / router or a Satellite-Phone as Router to your network.

Same with Android btw - either you disable the data connection at all or you connect via WiFi and the device consider the data connection to be flat rate.
So you probably have to root your device and install a android firewall + xprivacy to prevent the apps chatting around and downloading unsolicited adds, even the playstore needs to be blocked - google assumes any connection to be legit to force updating the play store at any time.

[ziacek]

Quick googling brings this: How to add outbound rule in windows firewall to allow Windows Update so if you access internet via firewall then you can block connections for windows update using the info from the article.

Alternatively, find your host file (usually in c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc) and add these 3 lines:

0.0.0.0 update.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 update.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 download.windowsupdate.com

and remove/comment them out when you have a cost effective means to access internet to let Windows update itself.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by ziacek

Quick googling brings this: How to add outbound rule in windows firewall to allow Windows Update so if you access internet via firewall then you can block connections for windows update using the info from the article.

Alternatively, find your host file (usually in c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc) and add these 3 lines:

0.0.0.0 update.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 update.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 download.windowsupdate.com

and remove/comment them out when you have a cost effective means to access internet to let Windows update itself.

Editing "hosts" is a pretty clever remedy. Does winDOHs throw a lot of errors when it tries to update?

[ziacek]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Editing "hosts" is a pretty clever remedy. Does winDOHs throw a lot of errors when it tries to update?

This is the place to go for clever hosts file entries:Blocking Unwanted Connections with a Hosts File

I have not seen any errors from Windows as the result of the entries from hosts file.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by ziacek

This is the place to go for clever hosts file entries:Blocking Unwanted Connections with a Hosts File

I have not seen any errors from Windows as the result of the entries from hosts file.

Yes, I am aware of this, I am using it extensively on android with a routed device to block all annoying ads - there is an app out there that downloads the most recent add networks / servers to do the magic if you not want to check 1000+ entries manually. You have to check the changes anyway and not just download and apply hosts files from the internet, because you can end up screwed by redirects of official sites to rogue hacker IP that pretend to be original and capture your passwords in a man in the middle attack. So all redirect entries should point strictly to the local host only.

I prefer using the windows advanced firewall with default-deny rules and explicitly allowing the legit traffic and also enabling the firewall log for all connections. With some tools or even Excel if you don't have them, you can exactly see who is talking when and where. It is not the OS only, butt almost all apps are calling home, loading content and adds etc. It is not that simple because of the Modern UI and the Android-like behavior of win8 / win10.

I managed to completely disable and drop the Appstore, Cortana, IE and the App subsystem and keep the windows10 in plain desktop operation mode with classic shell, so it looks like and behaves like W7, also disabling all the background jobs and policies that do reporting of the system health and usage to MS - however the updates become more tricky then. It's a pain in the a** to check the system after each update, because MS considers to "fix" things and mess the own settings up, so you have to start over getting the system back under control. Also MS moves more and more forward to replace and remove the classic control panel by "modern UI" apps stuff - so it becomes harder to use the system in the good old way.

W7 does not make such troble after updates, so I consider it more straight / transparent / stable / reliable / useful than W8 / W10.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

That is not true, you cannot set up WiFi or LAN as metered connections in W8.1 / W10 (...)

I did not try lan but with wifi you simply right click the right panel of wifi hosts and select 'set as metered' for 8.1 and 'properties' for 10.

Additionally 8.1 (likely 10 too) offers you the choice of not looking for updates as a feature.

Auto download of drivers can be set to off in the blue screen part of the system (log out / restart with detailed options, etc.)

It does not matter if we use Linux, Android or Windows. If you want the dog to wag its tail, you must teach it some tricks.

Cheers,
b.