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Old 20-07-2015, 22:57   #46
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

jwcolby54,

Microsoft say in their blurb for W10 that if you don't like the free upgrade you can roll back. I will take their word for it. If THAT doesn't work I would simply reinstall W7. Having said that, a lot of poeple would have their original W7 install disk or mirror images et-all.

In regards to W7 ISO. You can get any version of W7 ISO in many, many places on the .net without having to buy it. Setting it up and having it run properly takes about two minutes research on the .net.

I agree about Linux, the biggest hurdle there is the plethora of versions.

Kind regards.
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Old 20-07-2015, 23:00   #47
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

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This is a year old of course.
And the difference one year on would be....?
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Old 21-07-2015, 13:44   #48
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

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As for alternative operating systems, try Linux. Linux is like ice cream, there's a bunch of different flavours. For example, Ubuntu is popular for desktops with lot's of online support and Mint is popular for older machines lacking in horse power. You don't need to uninstall Windows to try it. IMO Linux has come a long way in the last few years and is now very slick and I would certainly say even beats Windows in some areas. Once upon a time Linux was for geeks only, but nowadays I think it is a viable choice for many users without specific Windows software or device needs. For those that don't know, Android OS is based on Linux.
Well. I do not know. I too say give it a try if you feel like it. About the only common system I have not used is Mac OS and about the worst I ever used is Linux. I use it only because in some of my hobbies it is the only choice. Horses for the courses.

b.
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Old 21-07-2015, 16:59   #49
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

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Well. I do not know. I too say give it a try if you feel like it. About the only common system I have not used is Mac OS and about the worst I ever used is Linux. I use it only because in some of my hobbies it is the only choice. Horses for the courses.

b.
I've sold hundreds of computer systems over the years, all supplied with Windows. As a general OS Windows is the undeniable winner. It's certainly helped put the roof over my head and food on my table.

But... for some specialty applications, Linux has big advantages. Think about updates (the subject of this thread) for example. Microsoft Update is just that - it updates Windows and a few other MS products. Turning off Windows Update is no guarantee that all background updates will stop. Other offenders are Google, Adobe + who knows what else that are quite often difficult to disable. Linux on the other hand, tends to update all applications via it's software updater which is transparent in operation and simple to disable. Which method would you prefer when dealing with limited connectivity and expensive data charges?

As a regular user of both systems, I'm happy to discuss pros and cons ad nauseum. I do have my on board cruising computer setup with Linux and the issue of background downloads at $10 per gigabyte was indeed one of the reasons for doing so. All I can say is that it was easy to install, not too painful to set up and works as it should for my purposes. Couldn't ask for more, really.
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Old 21-07-2015, 17:53   #50
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

My shipboard computer that never leaves is a Linux laptop. I have OpenCPN on it and the computer reads my Garmin GPS without issue. I pipe movies on to my TV from it. Never have had any issue with it...it just works.

I have not had any issue with Mint forcing updates. It lets me know when some are available, but does not oblige me to actually do anything about it. If I were cruising with a metered connection, Linux would be a prime candidate OS.
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Old 21-07-2015, 18:43   #51
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

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My shipboard computer that never leaves is a Linux laptop. I have OpenCPN on it and the computer reads my Garmin GPS without issue. I pipe movies on to my TV from it. Never have had any issue with it...it just works.

I have not had any issue with Mint forcing updates. It lets me know when some are available, but does not oblige me to actually do anything about it. If I were cruising with a metered connection, Linux would be a prime candidate OS.
Yeah Linux Mint on mine, too. I keep it set to manual and update at my leisure. An advantage of Linux and open source updates in general is that a lot of the updating is actually upgrading. In fact, Linux Mint is just about to roll out the in place upgrade to 17.2.
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Old 23-07-2015, 08:43   #52
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

About a year ago I started using Ubuntu and it seemed like a good deal. Then I was notified of an update which I installed. And.... Pow ..... nothing but a screen full of code, lost everything.
So it's back to Firefox and Thunderbird
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Old 23-07-2015, 09:27   #53
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

Reefmagnet - I am completely ignorant about Linux so maybe you can help. My current ship computer is an older Asus 10.1" netbook (2 GB of RAM) that would only be used for navigation, currently with Win7 on it. OpenCPN and hope to tie my new Vesper AIS to it. Does switching to Linux offer any advantage to me?
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Old 23-07-2015, 16:02   #54
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

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About a year ago I started using Ubuntu and it seemed like a good deal. Then I was notified of an update which I installed. And.... Pow ..... nothing but a screen full of code, lost everything.
So it's back to Firefox and Thunderbird

You have confused me. Ubuntu is an operating system. Where as both Firefox and Thunderbird are clients.

So, what operating system did you go too after removing Ubuntu?
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Old 23-07-2015, 17:00   #55
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

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Originally Posted by Sailorman Ed View Post
Reefmagnet - I am completely ignorant about Linux so maybe you can help. My current ship computer is an older Asus 10.1" netbook (2 GB of RAM) that would only be used for navigation, currently with Win7 on it. OpenCPN and hope to tie my new Vesper AIS to it. Does switching to Linux offer any advantage to me?
Ed
The advantages of Linux in relation to updates has already been thrashed out. If your laptop is an older Atom or other low powered processor, I'd expect it to perform faster with a light weight Linux distribution (e.g. Linux Mint Mate). Your AIS sends NMEA 0183 data to a serial port (according to the FAQ on the web site) so shouldn't be too much drama there in getting that set up and running. However, if you're happy with your existing Windows 7 installation at the moment, stick with it. You don't want to throw out one system you're familiar with and start learning a new one if it can't be justified with perceived benefits.

What I would recommend, if you haven't done so already, is replacing the mechanical hard disk with an SSD drive. The improvement in performance on older notebooks/netbooks makes this a worthwhile upgrade. You'd only need an 80 or 120 Gb capacity unit which are pretty cheap these days. Even though there are a number of ways to try Linux without removing Windows, installing a new hard drive provides a good excuse to install and try a new OS as you can always clone back the original from the replaced disk if it all goes to hell in a hand basket!

Which on the subject, and in relation to TinBoat's dramas, using disk cloning software for backup before a big upgrade is always a good idea. There's a few good free ones floating around. Clonezilla is one I recommend.
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Old 23-07-2015, 17:44   #56
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

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Originally Posted by Sailorman Ed View Post
Reefmagnet - I am completely ignorant about Linux so maybe you can help. My current ship computer is an older Asus 10.1" netbook (2 GB of RAM) that would only be used for navigation, currently with Win7 on it. OpenCPN and hope to tie my new Vesper AIS to it. Does switching to Linux offer any advantage to me?
Ed
I have an ASUS 10" netbook. 1001p I think. It sucked in Win 7. After I installed Linux (Ubuntu netbook version), it was much more useful.

Here's a (relatively) easy test:
  • spend $10 on a 8GB USB stick or SDcard
  • download this prepackaged marine-oriented Linux distribution Navigatrix.net, and install it onto the stick/SD card (instructions on the site)
  • You now have a stick/SD card that you can boot most laptops/netbooks with. You may have to change some settings on your ASUS' BIOS to permit booting on the stick/card
  • Boot up on the card/stick and have a play
Bootable distributions like this let you try out the OS and software without making any changes to your current installed OS.
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Old 23-07-2015, 20:56   #57
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

This is a killer idea for trying Linux, for those comfortable with booting into BIOS or machines that will allow boot from USB. I guess my last Linux install was 15 years ago on a 1998 motherboard and it took some effort to getting all the drivers for chipset, etc

I have a spare HP laptop I used solely for my cattle artificial insemination program on farm. can I add an SSD and run mint on a 10 year old laptop and it be useful for basic functions like browsing and mail, and open CPN? Otherwise it's useless.

I'm a MacBook Pro user, purchased by work - has lasted 5 years. Just got hired running a grain operation and the trading platform is windows based, so it's back to windows for me. This after 5 years of trouble free operation and maybe 50 reboots on the Mac.

I can build and configure those machines, or could, but man I got tired of having to. I'd like a trouble free Linux D for my leisure time if that'll work.

I use the iPad mostly anyway, so the laptop,would get a gps puck and do little else.


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Old 23-07-2015, 22:03   #58
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

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This is a killer idea for trying Linux, for those comfortable with booting into BIOS or machines that will allow boot from USB. I guess my last Linux install was 15 years ago on a 1998 motherboard and it took some effort to getting all the drivers for chipset, etc
Availability of Linux drivers and ease of application software installation over recent times has probably been the biggest gains with Linux in terms of user friendliness. You still need to check that drivers are available for some newer or super obscure devices, but for the most part arguably easier than Windows to install (as in plug and play).

Quote:
I have a spare HP laptop I used solely for my cattle artificial insemination program on farm. can I add an SSD and run mint on a 10 year old laptop and it be useful for basic functions like browsing and mail, and open CPN? Otherwise it's useless.
That setup is screamin' for Linux

Quote:
I'm a MacBook Pro user, purchased by work - has lasted 5 years. Just got hired running a grain operation and the trading platform is windows based, so it's back to windows for me. This after 5 years of trouble free operation and maybe 50 reboots on the Mac.
"Boot Camp" could be an alternative solution.

Quote:
I can build and configure those machines, or could, but man I got tired of having to. I'd like a trouble free Linux D for my leisure time if that'll work.

I use the iPad mostly anyway, so the laptop,would get a gps puck and do little else.
Nuthin's perfect, but you should give it a crack. I'm pretty sure there'a a windows manager that has themes available to make your Linux UI look like a flavour of OS-X if you're that way inclined. A GPS puck shouldn't be a problem to get up and running if it just spits out NMEA sentences. I think there's a bit of guidance available here and there on the OpenCPN site. When I did my laptop, which has an inbuilt GPS on an internal COM port, the OpenCPN and GPS installation was the only part that really required any thing other than point and click and even then it was fairly trivial to install and configure.
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Old 24-07-2015, 06:39   #59
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

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I have a spare HP laptop I used solely for my cattle artificial insemination program on farm. can I add an SSD and run mint on a 10 year old laptop and it be useful for basic functions like browsing and mail, and open CPN? Otherwise it's useless.
As Mr Magnet has mentioned, installing a Linux OS will give you more life from an old laptop. I would simply install a Linux OS on the existing HD and see how you like it. For the price of a new SSD, you could probably buy a newer used laptop, so it's debatable whether you'd get the most bang for the buck by adding one to a 10 yr old machine.
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Old 24-07-2015, 07:09   #60
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Re: Windows 10 and mandatory updates

In my experience there is a "time window" between computer age and the odds of painless Linux installs. If you have a computer that is brand new or more than 5 years old the odds of a painless install are not good. But if your computer is 2-4 years old then odds are pretty good that it will be painless.

Some manufacturers sell computers with Linux in mind. You can check this on the web sites of major manufacturers like Dell. They have specific models that do not include esoteric hardware that Linux does not understand. But many of the new ultra cheap (<$300) Windows 8.1 computers out now do not do so well when installing Linux.
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