Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

[Pizzazz]

It is now quite clear why DSC is such a failure. It could have been such a nice system, easy to use, allowing you to call buddies whether on VHF or HF. Instead they designed a system for fleets that now is forced on the recreational market. Alright, you can't fight burocrats, need to go around them.

Here is the idea. We set up a couple of frequencies, similar to marine nets, that allow data. We come up with a totally separate communication from the DSC protocol. It could still be based on SITOR but different. We come up with an Android app that takes care of the encoding and the radio control. User friendly, modern design, support for most popular radios. We then start using it to call each other, set up nets, etc. A few years down the road it will become an intl standard.

?!

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Buzz....I'm note sure what you just said but I'm going to La Paz Mexico tomorrow...so I don't really care other than to say, I'll raise a Taco to your Anti-bureaucratic tome while I'm down where it's safe eating off a taco cart without a City Health department inspection sticker...that's called living on the edge mi Amigo...la vida loca

Cerveza, también, por favor. Para tu, también. Gracias. Heck yes, the tacos are safer than the ones in L.A.. I hope the Santa Ana's are over; fair winds and a safe voyage, if you re sailing. Otherwise have a safe flight since driving is improbable. Forgive my Spanish writing attempt.

[Jim Cate]

Everyone should try to remember that one is not required to use a marine SSB that has DSC capabilities. There are plenty of excellent transceivers on the market, both from Icom and other manufacturers, most of which are less expensive than the 802 and its brethren.

I know that at least one of the CF gurus is very adamant about the need for DSC for emergency communications, but if you give away that one feature, DSC is pretty useless for cruisers. There are other means of summoning help if required...

FWIW, I don't like the 802 anyway, for it is dependent upon nested menus for controlling features, and I don't like that. The various 700 series of Icoms appeal to me more, and they are readily available.

So, don't dispair, Mike O'R! There will be a good radio available when you decide to take up HF comms.

Jim

[btrayfors]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Everyone should try to remember that one is not required to use a marine SSB that has DSC capabilities. There are plenty of excellent transceivers on the market, both from Icom and other manufacturers, most of which are less expensive than the 802 and its brethren.

I know that at least one of the CF gurus is very adamant about the need for DSC for emergency communications, but if you give away that one feature, DSC is pretty useless for cruisers. There are other means of summoning help if required...

FWIW, I don't like the 802 anyway, for it is dependent upon nested menus for controlling features, and I don't like that. The various 700 series of Icoms appeal to me more, and they are readily available.

So, don't dispair, Mike O'R! There will be a good radio available when you decide to take up HF comms.

Jim

Jim,

I agree with you....don't think that DSC is a "must-have" feature. I think the whole DSC/GDMSS system is deeply flawed -- too many architects and much too complex for the average cruiser -- and there are lots of alternatives.

Please note, however, that NONE of these alternatives are available in the U.S. NEW without DSC, since it has been illegal for some years now to sell a new marine radio -- VHF or MF/HF -- without DSC.

There are lots of alternatives. I have over 20 HF transceivers in my home/shack, and many of these are excellent choices for the cruising sailor. On my own boat, I've chosen the Yaesu FT-900CAT ham transceiver paired with the Yaesu FT-600 marine HF transceiver. Neither of these has DSC and I don't miss it at all.

Other good choices in older marine transceivers for a boat include the Icom M710, the M710RT, the M700Pro, and even the older M700 and the M600. Additionally, several of the SEA models, the wonderful Kenwood TKM-707, the afore-mentioned Yaesu FT-600, the not-so-wonderful Furuno FS-1503, and a couple of others.

Of course, if you have at least $10,000 to drop there are several new marine MF/HF models on the market.

And, we keep hearing that Icom is going to produce a new model "real soon now". Hold your breath.

And, whatever they DO wind up doing, lets hope they do better that the 802 which, IMHO, was never a great marine radio. Deeply flawed, not even splash-proof (hey, what do you expect for $2,000?), totally not intuitive, low "talk power" as shipped until you find someone to turn of the speech compression for you, horrible connectors and, as we've only recently learned, not fully compliant with GDMSS/DSC specs. Still and all, it was the only affordable game in town, looked real good and, if you tweaked it properly it worked very well for voice, digital, DSC marine and ham use.

Bill
WA6CCA

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

Cerveza, también, por favor. Para tu, también. Gracias. Heck yes, the tacos are safer than the ones in L.A.

My brother's first assignment for the Foreign Service was at the consulate in Monterrey, Mexico. He loved eating street food. He didn't love the amoebic dysentery he got though. It was a particularly drug-resistant strain which he had to live with for a couple of decades before there was a treatment that freed him from the frequent recurrences. It had to be given in a hospital as it was itself quite dangerous.

I also picked up amoebic dysentery on my way through in 1994, and the treatment was not a lot of fun then either. So please enjoy the tasty food, just don't assume it is anything like as safe as the food here. Good luck.

Greg

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

It is now quite clear why DSC is such a failure. It could have been such a nice system, easy to use, allowing you to call buddies whether on VHF or HF. Instead they designed a system for fleets that now is forced on the recreational market. Alright, you can't fight burocrats, need to go around them.

Here is the idea. We set up a couple of frequencies, similar to marine nets, that allow data. We come up with a totally separate communication from the DSC protocol. It could still be based on SITOR but different. We come up with an Android app that takes care of the encoding and the radio control. User friendly, modern design, support for most popular radios. We then start using it to call each other, set up nets, etc. A few years down the road it will become an intl standard.

?!

[smac999]

Originally Posted by Paul L

As far as functionality, the units are just fine for cruiser use. It is unlikely that as a cruiser you will ever bother to use the DSC capabilities of the 801. .

so when you push the DSC button on a SSB and boats 3000-5000 miles away get it. help will there in there 5 months? DSC on an SSB seems so dumb anyways...

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by smac999

so when you push the DSC button on a SSB and boats 3000-5000 miles away get it. help will there in there 5 months? DSC on an SSB seems so dumb anyways...

Maybe dumb in your part of the world but not so dumb in other less populated parts

Push the DSC button and a RCC a thousand miles away gets it. They will know what the closest assets are by using DSC to contact whatever shipping might be nearby (say 100+ miles) and so on.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by smac999

so when you push the DSC button on a SSB and boats 3000-5000 miles away get it. help will there in there 5 months? DSC on an SSB seems so dumb anyways...

Really? Now that IS a dumb comment. So by extension using an EPIRB to bounce off a satellite to a ground station thousands of miles away, that connects to a SAR center which passes is to the nation of registry SAR, which may bring government or commercial or private shipping to the rescue, is dumb???? It doesn't matter how you get the word out as long as it gets to a SAR center. And you may be very grateful if it is your life on the line.

Greg

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by smac999

so when you push the DSC button on a SSB and boats 3000-5000 miles away get it. help will there in there 5 months? DSC on an SSB seems so dumb anyways...

The "red panic button" DSC function is but a small part of the DSC capability. However, I generally agree that DSC does not offer much advantage to most cruising sailors.

Jim

[Roy M]

So, I'm sitting here with my still unopened 802 purchased before the fireworks began. Will it matter to anyone if I install it on my boat and use it internationally on ham and ssb bands? Will the DSC work?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Roy M

So, I'm sitting here with my still unopened 802 purchased before the fireworks began. Will it matter to anyone if I install it on my boat and use it internationally on ham and ssb bands? Will the DSC work?

It will work fine and not be any official issue.(you will require appropriate licenses) If you install the the second antenna, then you will have its full DSC capability.

[Roy M]

Thank-you Paul L

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Roy M

So, I'm sitting here with my still unopened 802 purchased before the fireworks began. Will it matter to anyone if I install it on my boat and use it internationally on ham and ssb bands? Will the DSC work?

It will work just fine, as Paul has said, for voice, email, weather info, and yes even DSC. Get your licenses, get the modem or DAC/ADC to connect to your computer, and the programs to decode/encode email, weather (including FAX), and NAVTEX (although a dedicated receiver is preferable for this). Find the excellent training videos on YouTube and learn how to use the radio. When you first start up be sure to open up the frequencies for ham. And always remember that when you are tuning you are transmitting so never do that on top of someone else or on a frequency you are not licensed for. Enjoy.

Greg

[Roy M]

Thanks, Greg. I've got my tech license and will be taking my general shortly.