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Old 01-03-2017, 15:02   #46
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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Some people have a sense of humor and crack up...other get angry and nut up.....What you call bait...others crack up at and see the hilarious joke.
Everyone loves bigly humor, unsubstantiated rumors and politics instead of sailing
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Old 01-03-2017, 15:06   #47
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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Everyone loves bigly humor, unsubstantiated rumors and politics instead of sailing
I think you proved my point exactly in making two posts about it...it's absolutely fun! Thanks for playing along and Making Cruising Forum Great Again.....
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Old 01-03-2017, 15:47   #48
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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I think you proved my point exactly in making two posts about it...it's absolutely fun! Thanks for playing along and Making Cruising Forum Great Again.....


O.K., now you're not the only one, that there was frigging hilarious.
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Old 01-03-2017, 17:16   #49
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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I think you proved my point exactly in making two posts about it...it's absolutely fun! Thanks for playing along and Making Cruising Forum Great Again.....
Awh come on, you know you don't need any evidence to "prove" your political points
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Old 01-03-2017, 17:49   #50
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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Hey, you asked for an 'unspun' version, disregarding everyone's comments on CF as garbage. I told you where to go look......it's certainly not surprising to me you still don't understand.
Nor was it surprising to me. That was one of the reasons I made my request. I indeed enjoy learning, but some of the things about radio are perhaps not dissimilar to attempting to learn calculus just after one was introduced to addition. Nonetheless, your generous assistance and sharing of knowledge is appreciated despite the fact that by the time I figure out what is occurring there is a good chance it will no longer matter.
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Old 01-03-2017, 17:52   #51
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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Everyone loves bigly humor, unsubstantiated rumors and politics instead of sailing
If we were sailing we'd not have the time or the interest. Living aboard or owning a boat is not the same as sailing. Or is it?
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Old 01-03-2017, 20:24   #52
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

Sails....you mean vertical stabilizers?
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Old 01-03-2017, 21:28   #53
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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For someone who says they hate the Internet rumors, you sure like to promote them. You started it on this thread saying it was the FCC complaining about a 1 second difference in timeout as the cause if the sale restriction. Not true, but fits your anti-government mindset. Then you are trying to politicize this thread by bringing in Trump, healthcare and the IRS. Just unnecessary baiting.
For those remote from the US and its system, and maybe to understand some of the attempts at humor, I offer the following, which I believe to be facts (unless clearly opinion) rather than anything less. Our President, Trump, Obama, or anyone, does not have the power to simply levy tariffs or taxes with the authority of our congress. Our laws come into existence via bills that go through congress (House and Senate) by a majority and are signed by the president. Laws can go into effect without the presidents signature if they are passed by a super-majority in each house of congress. Right now this is improbable. We have a Federal Communications Commission. It is charged with overseeing communications covering the entire radio spectrum, Most things are via international agreements. Despite this there are politics involved at all levels,cerainly in the USA and even internationally at a different level. The issues, which are in no small part political, range from allocations of the radio spectrum, to more domestic issues such as how many radio or television stations can a company own, or how much time can be devoted to one side of the political spectrum over broadcast channels. I have always thought that technical issues, such as the M-802's reported failure to comply with technical requirements were fairly straight forward (I really do not know if 1/100 of a second on something is that big of a deal), but I have the impression this is a hugely political fight, although perhaps it is not. But anyway, the humor comes from some of the over-the-top comments and intentional but seemingly probable distortions of how things occurred. or could occur. Despite the vitriol, we all wind up in the dust bin eventually, as do the electrons we termporarily align in various ways. Heck, I am not even clear if, and if so, why a company such as ICOM could not do it right in the first place, if indeed they did not. Now I hear the comment about the 802 in the UK, and wonder in a broad sense how much this kind of supercilliousness may have had to do with the Brexit vote. Sorry all, I ranted, and did not intend to do so.
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Old 01-03-2017, 21:37   #54
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

Hey Rant away amigo...it was a fun (if confusing) read...but we do have some corrections.
Since the USA is now functioning in a Post Constitutional Period, the School House Rocks approach of how a Bill becomes a law is old news. Nowadays, the Imperial President makes a Rule, Writes a Letter, or Directs the leader of his Deep State Army to do something and boom....a Law is Born. Oh they may not call it a Law...but try to go against it and you will be in mucho trouble. What next a Mono-huller can Self Identify as a Cat and chose his own marina slip?
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Old 01-03-2017, 21:54   #55
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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Hey Rant away amigo...it was a fun (if confusing) read...but we do have some corrections.
Since the USA is now functioning in a Post Constitutional Period, the School House Rocks approach of how a Bill becomes a law is old news. Nowadays, the Imperial President makes a Rule, Writes a Letter, or Directs the leader of his Deep State Army to do something and boom....a Law is Born. Oh they may not call it a Law...but try to go against it and you will be in mucho trouble. What next a Mono-huller can Self Identify as a Cat and chose his own marina slip?
Are you trying to mess with our developing system of Executive Orders, mein Herr? But you have it wrong: every mono will soon be required to attach outriggers (unrelated to fishing) in order to be reclassified as a trimaran. This is true natural law. Oarsmen may also be required on every vessel to insure full employment. Specifications for the steering oar are pending, and this will require compliance officers. Confusing huh, it is just that Morro Bay fog. Heck, you can rarely see the Rock from Cayucos.
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Old 02-03-2017, 00:24   #56
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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Originally Posted by buzzstar View Post
For those remote from the US and its system, and maybe to understand some of the attempts at humor, I offer the following, which I believe to be facts (unless clearly opinion) rather than anything less. Our President, Trump, Obama, or anyone, does not have the power to simply levy tariffs or taxes with the authority of our congress. Our laws come into existence via bills that go through congress (House and Senate) by a majority and are signed by the president. Laws can go into effect without the presidents signature if they are passed by a super-majority in each house of congress. Right now this is improbable. We have a Federal Communications Commission. It is charged with overseeing communications covering the entire radio spectrum, Most things are via international agreements. Despite this there are politics involved at all levels,cerainly in the USA and even internationally at a different level. The issues, which are in no small part political, range from allocations of the radio spectrum, to more domestic issues such as how many radio or television stations can a company own, or how much time can be devoted to one side of the political spectrum over broadcast channels. I have always thought that technical issues, such as the M-802's reported failure to comply with technical requirements were fairly straight forward (I really do not know if 1/100 of a second on something is that big of a deal), but I have the impression this is a hugely political fight, although perhaps it is not. But anyway, the humor comes from some of the over-the-top comments and intentional but seemingly probable distortions of how things occurred. or could occur. Despite the vitriol, we all wind up in the dust bin eventually, as do the electrons we termporarily align in various ways. Heck, I am not even clear if, and if so, why a company such as ICOM could not do it right in the first place, if indeed they did not. Now I hear the comment about the 802 in the UK, and wonder in a broad sense how much this kind of supercilliousness may have had to do with the Brexit vote. Sorry all, I ranted, and did not intend to do so.
The 802 was not type certified in the UK. The icom 801e is no longer type approved in the UK. Not sure how you connect this with Brexit.
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Old 02-03-2017, 09:51   #57
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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The 802 was not type certified in the UK. The icom 801e is no longer type approved in the UK. Not sure how you connect this with Brexit.
I probably do not fully understand, but I had believed (and still do pending added information) that the 801 (unaware of an "e") was pretty much the Euro version of the 802 in the US and other places. The national regulatory agencies, have been and are being whipped into line by the big international body (the ITU), and they are caving in at differing rates, as the pressure is also applied in different ways in different geographical and economic areas.

As to your question, there is, in my view, a popular and peaceful rebellion against regulation of our lives via bureaucracies. Brexit was but an example, and it, like Donald Trump in the USA caught the bureaucratically focused by surprise. BTW, just so you do not automatically miscategorize me, I am a US citizen and I did not vote for Trump or any of them. This was by choice. I so not regret my personal decision. Had I been in the UK and able to vote I believe would have voted for Brexit.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:10   #58
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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I probably do not fully understand, but I had believed (and still do pending added information) that the 801 (unaware of an "e") was pretty much the Euro version of the 802 in the US and other places. The national regulatory agencies, have been and are being whipped into line by the big international body (the ITU), and they are caving in at differing rates, as the pressure is also applied in different ways in different geographical and economic areas.

As to your question, there is, in my view, a popular and peaceful rebellion against regulation of our lives via bureaucracies. Brexit was but an example, and it, like Donald Trump in the USA caught the bureaucratically focused by surprise. BTW, just so you do not automatically miscategorize me, I am a US citizen and I did not vote for Trump or any of them. This was by choice. I so not regret my personal decision. Had I been in the UK and able to vote I believe would have voted for Brexit.
The available radio spectrum is a public common. Someone has to make regulations for its fair use.

My point was that it is not only the US that has acted as implied by others. The Brits have also apparently removed the type certification for the 801e.
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:29   #59
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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The available radio spectrum is a public common. Someone has to make regulations for its fair use.

My point was that it is not only the US that has acted as implied by others. The Brits have also apparently removed the type certification for the 801e.
Thanks Paul, so as a Canadian I am curious why my country (and apparently others) have not followed the US/UK lead on this. Why is the 802 still apparently legal and certified by Canadian standards?

I guess my real question is: should I rush out and buy one now before Canada follows suite? Or is this truly just some quirky issue with US/UK regs that the rest of the world can ignore?

I haven’t spent nearly the time some of you have on this, but I may want to install an SSB at some point. My scan of the documents indicated (to me) that the deficiencies would make little practical difference to the normal use of these radios.
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Old 02-03-2017, 14:34   #60
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Re: Why is the Icom M802s not available from vendors?

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Thanks Paul, so as a Canadian I am curious why my country (and apparently others) have not followed the US/UK lead on this. Why is the 802 still apparently legal and certified by Canadian standards?

I guess my real question is: should I rush out and buy one now before Canada follows suite? Or is this truly just some quirky issue with US/UK regs that the rest of the world can ignore?

I haven’t spent nearly the time some of you have on this, but I may want to install an SSB at some point. My scan of the documents indicated (to me) that the deficiencies would make little practical difference to the normal use of these radios.
I don't think characterizing this as a quirk of governments helps much. The units don't meet the current international specs that these countries base their requirements on. As far as functionality, the units are just fine for cruiser use. It is unlikely that as a cruiser you will ever bother to use the DSC capabilities of the 801. I have used the DSC once in 7 years of cruising and that was to test it out. It isn't why a cruiser has these radios or part of any normal usage. Even as an emergency call, the DSC functionality of the radio is fine. It just no longer, if ever, meets the ITU specs.

Can't answer anything about the Canadian regulations. Maybe this is far enough down on the list of things to care about that they haven't gotten to it. If you aren't within a year or so of actually needing the SSB, not sure I'd invest in it. You might change your mind before you leave and use some other communications method.
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