Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-01-2019, 12:52   #1
Registered User
 
Privilege's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bermuda
Boat: Privilege 435
Posts: 502
Images: 12
Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

A question for all you sailors that have traveled to different countries.
I'm in the process of purchasing an AIS and EPIRB for my 44' sailboat and need an MMSI number first. Although my boat is registered lawfully in Bermuda with the local Marine and Ports department, Bermuda requires me to register my ship with the British Shipping Registry and then apply for a licence to get my MMSI...a $1,500 process...plus annual registration.

What would happen if I paid the $25 to register my boat for local travel, got my MMSI number and then traveled overseas? Surely the MMSI number would remain the same as would the boat and emergency details associated with it?

Obviously, I wouldn't dream of upsetting the authorities or breaking the law but in reality, what would happen if I turn up in a different jurisdiction with an MMSI issued for local travel? Would they even know?
__________________

Privilege is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2019, 13:00   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Brighton, Michigan
Boat: 2019 Fountaine Pajot Saba 50'
Posts: 170
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

Wow, and I thought the US FCC $220 Ship Station License fee was excessive.
__________________

__________________
-Tom

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw
CalmSeasQuest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2019, 16:43   #3
Registered User
 
Pete O Static's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Canada and Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 36 and C&C 29 MkII
Posts: 158
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

Wow! That is quite the process. I would ask other boaters registered in Bermuda how they are dealing with that. I can't see paying that kind of money.


So long as you are not American, you do not need an MMSI first. You can buy the equipment and then once you have an MMSI number issued, program it yourself in about 5 minutes using free software Pro AIS 2


Not sure how it works in Bermuda but in Canada I can simply apply for an MMSI number. But because I sail in international waters, I need to carry a radio station licence which would have to show the AIS, VHF, Radar, Epirb etc. So the MMSI number would need to match. Not sure if that would be the same in your case.
Pete O Static is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2019, 18:37   #4
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Sea-TechSystems's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: 45' Jeanneau Sun Odyssey
Posts: 161
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Privilege View Post
A question for all you sailors that have traveled to different countries.
I'm in the process of purchasing an AIS and EPIRB for my 44' sailboat and need an MMSI number first. Although my boat is registered lawfully in Bermuda with the local Marine and Ports department, Bermuda requires me to register my ship with the British Shipping Registry and then apply for a licence to get my MMSI...a $1,500 process...plus annual registration.

What would happen if I paid the $25 to register my boat for local travel, got my MMSI number and then traveled overseas? Surely the MMSI number would remain the same as would the boat and emergency details associated with it?

Obviously, I wouldn't dream of upsetting the authorities or breaking the law but in reality, what would happen if I turn up in a different jurisdiction with an MMSI issued for local travel? Would they even know?
The key thing is that the emergency details and boat information DO NOT travel overseas with the "local MMSI". That IS the difference, and why you should pay more for the normal one. If you go overseas, other boats will see your boat name via AIS, but if you send a distress call the local authorities will not know who you are, or your emergency contact details. All they will get is an MMSI number and a position. They could consider it a false alarm, or they may not.. The international MMSI number that costs more specifically allows that information to be shared with the other countries in the the IMO/GMDSS treaty group.
__________________
Richard Anderson, SV Mobert. Owner - Sea-Tech Systems - Communications, Navigation, and Weather packages and services for the offshore cruising boat.
Sea-TechSystems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2019, 19:31   #5
Registered User
 
Privilege's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bermuda
Boat: Privilege 435
Posts: 502
Images: 12
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

So...a different number for offshore purposes. That makes sense. Thanks.
Privilege is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2019, 02:38   #6
Registered User
 
fxykty's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Auckland
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 613
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Privilege View Post
A question for all you sailors that have traveled to different countries.

I'm in the process of purchasing an AIS and EPIRB for my 44' sailboat and need an MMSI number first. Although my boat is registered lawfully in Bermuda with the local Marine and Ports department, Bermuda requires me to register my ship with the British Shipping Registry and then apply for a licence to get my MMSI...a $1,500 process...plus annual registration.



What would happen if I paid the $25 to register my boat for local travel, got my MMSI number and then traveled overseas? Surely the MMSI number would remain the same as would the boat and emergency details associated with it?



Obviously, I wouldn't dream of upsetting the authorities or breaking the law but in reality, what would happen if I turn up in a different jurisdiction with an MMSI issued for local travel? Would they even know?


If your boat is to be registered with the British Ship Registry then you can get a ship radio licence and MMSI from Ofcom (ofcom.org.uk). This costs nothing if you do it via their online portal!

What is the $1500 for? Is that for the registration with the British Ship Registry? And annual renewals? Thatís not correct for Part 1 registration - initial registration is £153 for 5 years and renewals are £72. Refer to https://www.gov.uk/register-a-boat/the-uk-ship-register. You must be going through an agency and getting charged big time.

Your Bermuda registration sounds like a local licensing, hence the need for a real registration. You could just register on the Bermuda Ship Registry. If thatís not possible, consider registering via the Jersey Ships Registry on the British Registry of Ships Part 1. Registration is for 10 years.
fxykty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2019, 02:56   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 520
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

No expertise here but could you register with British Small Ships Registry and do the licensing for far less money? I'm a yank but many British cruiser friends were Small Ships Registry.
stormalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2019, 03:22   #8
Registered User
 
fxykty's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Auckland
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 613
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

Small Ships Registry (Part 3) is only for residents of the UK. So probably not an option for the OP. But registration on the British Register of Ships (Part 1) via Jersey can be done by non-residents, but Bermuda Iím not sure.
fxykty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2019, 06:58   #9
Registered User
 
Privilege's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bermuda
Boat: Privilege 435
Posts: 502
Images: 12
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

Thanks Fx and for everyone's input. I'll try registering directly with the British Ship Registry. The costs here for direct licensing with the Goverment entities are $600 for licensing with the British ship registry and then $600 for the radio license application with (I think) another couple of hundred for the radio license. Crazy.
Privilege is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2019, 08:08   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northport, Michigan
Boat: Trailerable cruising boat
Posts: 406
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

I believe the general distinction between getting an MMSI from the national registering agency and a local registration agency is whether or not your vessel identification will show up in the ITU List of Ships. A simple way to determine if your ship identification is in the ITU database is to visit their look-up website and try searching for your vessel:

https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/shipstation/list

If your vessel is in the registry, it should show up in a search. For example, if you search for the vessel "QUEEN MARY 2" you will find it in the ITU list.

I would then PRESUME that a rescue agency in any country that is part of the ITU would be able to access more data about your vessel than is provided by the open access of the on-line search, although the open-access on-line search does give quite a bit of information.

The search results use a lot of acronyms. For help in deciphering the acronyms, see my article about MMSI Look Up at

http://continuouswave.com/forum/view...hp?f=13&t=3948
continuouswave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2019, 08:52   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Home port is San Diego, California, but Rutea is currently cruising the west coast of Central America.
Boat: Contest 48
Posts: 847
Images: 1
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

We have seen quite a few Ďfakeí AIS signals - like all Ď9sí or Ď1234567890í, apparently someone who wants to be seen but not identified, many times with no name or boat dimensions. Frankly, when weíre at sea, it doesnít matter to me as long as Iím not involved with SAR activities for that boat.

I think that AIS is one of the most significant developments in yachting safety since radar was made available.

Fair winds and calm seas.
nhschneider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2019, 10:15   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: North Channel, Lake Huron
Boat: 1984 Mirage 27 (Perry)
Posts: 31
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

I did my MMSI registration in Canada (no cost) and it shows in the ITU database.
Thuid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2019, 12:27   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
Tugwit's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Olympia WA
Boat: Cascade 36
Posts: 53
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by continuouswave View Post
I believe the general distinction between getting an MMSI from the national registering agency and a local registration agency is whether or not your vessel identification will show up in the ITU List of Ships. A simple way to determine if your ship identification is in the ITU database is to visit their look-up website and try searching for your vessel:

https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/shipstation/list

If your vessel is in the registry, it should show up in a search....

Jim has performed a valuable service by providing this link to the ITU (MARS) database. I'd encourage anyone who believes that they have a legitimate FCC-issued MMSI to verify that their record appears in the international ITU registry. After all, the chief benefit of having an FCC-issued MMSI is that your record is forwarded to the ITU for use by international SAR authorities.

I did, and was unhappy to find that no record was returned for my vessel--despite (or perhaps because of?) having an active ship license for over 40 years.

So I performed a random check of 12 local recreational vessels with FCC-issued MMSI and found that fully half of them fail to show up in the ITU database, although all are listed in the FCC database--searchable, and available here:

License Search - Ship License Search

Now, there may be a perfectly reasonable explanation for these discrepancies; I've contacted the FCC and am awaiting a response. On the other hand, many balls may have been dropped between the FCC and the UTC.

And US boaters traveling in foreign waters may be ignorant of the additional risk they are incurring if local SAR authorities are unable to access the particulars of their vessel in the event of an emergency.
Tugwit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2019, 13:17   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Fort William, Highland, Scotland
Boat: Bavaria Cruiser 40
Posts: 709
Images: 16
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

I got my MMSI from Ofcom in the UK when I applied for the Ships Radio Licence and it cost me 3/5 of 7/8 of bugger all. The ships MMSI is unique to the radio station it is issued to irrespective of where in the world you might happen to be. For instance my boat was in Croatia at the time, now in Greece, but we still have a UK issued MMSI.

The radio licence doesn't have to be with the same flag state as the vessel is registered with. For a few years my boat was Croatian flagged but maintained a UK radio licence and MMSI (I did have a Croatian radio licence but as you can't change the MMSI in a ships VHF without the dealership codes I kept the UK one).

If Bermuda, a Crown Dependency, requires your vessel to be registered with the UK then it will be on the full register (Part 1) but that doesn't cost $1500 and can be done online I believe. Once you are registered you can apply to Ofcom, again online, to get the ships radio licence and any relevant MMSI's (Ships DSC VHF, Portable DSC VHF, EPIRB etc.) Your AIS should be the same MMSI as the Ship VHF.
kas_1611 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2019, 14:30   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 1,386
Images: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to roland stockham
Re: Why buy the expensive MMSI for your AIS and EPIB

You say your boat is resisted in Bermuda but you don't mention your nationality or country of residence. Normally registration follows the nationality of the skipper or is open to permanent residents. So if you are a British citizen you would normally register you boat as British but if you have another nationality you could register with that country. Where you or the boat are don't normally effect registration, although they may effect tax. This may give you some other option rather than paying such high fees for British registry. The other consideration is that communications equipment such as radios need to be licensed in you country of registration. This means British registered boat need a European certified SSB set and must have the long range comms certificate to operate it. In USA or Canada it is part of the standard radio license. If you are used to the way things are done in N America this can be a nasty shock and cost a few more thousands.
__________________

roland stockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ais

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Calling an MMSI # WITHOUT having an MMSI number ? SteelCruiser Marine Electronics 25 31-03-2018 08:20
Why is an AIS transmitter so much more expensive than a receiver? David Dennis Marine Electronics 36 26-06-2014 10:14
Buy cheap & repair ... or buy expensive and go? j9gillik General Sailing Forum 22 23-10-2007 15:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.