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Old 30-10-2013, 05:45   #1
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Which SSB for new yacht

For a new Lagoon 39 being commissioned in the UK. The Gibraltar Registry states they require CE compliance, however:

iCOM 801E is no longer CE compliant and has been discontinued.

iCOM 802 is not CE compliant.

Gibraltar registry requires brand/model/serial # so just 'fudging' and getting an 802 is presumably not an option, even if I could buy and get it fitted in the UK.

Help, recommendation needed!

Bunt,
Lagoon 39
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Old 30-10-2013, 06:42   #2
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

I would recommend embracing new technology and entering the modern world. Instead purchase an Iridium sat phone with below deck installation and a WiFi antenna. This combination is more practical for many reasons that you could find searching CF archives. The Iridium is for offshore and the WiFi is for anchorages, harbors, and marinas. Costs are comparable. The Iridium has the added feature of being able to take with you in the life raft if it comes to that.
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Old 30-10-2013, 07:35   #3
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

Hi LakeSuperior of course we'll have wifi and a sat installed (and 4G, which is fantastic where available). Regardless an SSB set is mandatory for the World ARC (World Cruising Club Terms and Conditions). I believe SSB is also commonly used for communications in Australia.

Best option I've heard so far is find a dealer with an 801E still on the shelf, it will at least have CE markings despite it being discontinued and not compliant with the latest requirements. Seems to be a remarkable situation in the industry.

Regards,
Bunt
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Old 30-10-2013, 07:42   #4
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

If I were you, I would first check and be sure that the M802 is really a problem on the Gibraltar registry. As far as I understand, even countries which require details about the radios in their databases, do not pay any attention at all to whether or not the radio is actually CE marked. I've seen Icom M802's on all kinds of European boats, and have never heard of any single incident of any problem.

If after checking you still have any doubts, I don't believe you could possibly have any problem with a used or NOS M801E. This radio will have the CE mark, which is all they can possibly ask for -- that is, that it was in compliance when it was made. These people are even showing the M801E in stock: Icom M801E and M802 Marine SSB transceivers - SailCom Marine

Failing all that, you could go with one of several full GMDSS radios which are CE compliant. They are expensive, but conceivably worth it. Here is one: http://www.cactusnav.com/furuno-fs15...e-p-12573.html


As to the suggestion to forget HF radio and just go with a sat phone -- there are thousands of pages of debate on this issue in the Cruisers Forum archives. In my opinion, a sat phone is really not any substitute at all for HF radio (I have both). For safety (using the GMDSS DSC system) and for entertainment (participating in nets; SWL; etc.) MF/HF radio is peerless, in my opinion. I suspect that you will have already made up your mind about these, else you wouldn't have asked the question. Good luck to you.
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Old 30-10-2013, 07:48   #5
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

I agree with Dockhead - just about everyone uses the ICOM 802. I wouldn't intentionally break any rules yet somehow my blog pages showing my SSB are curiously out-of-focus.
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Old 30-10-2013, 07:51   #6
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

Codan Envoy HF Transceiver
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Old 30-10-2013, 07:59   #7
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

from a usa sailor find this interesting -- what i find more interesting is that you need a 2nd antenna for dsc with an 801 -- sail down here to tunisia and get an 802 --
lots of 802s have sailed around the world -- we have had ours for 7 years and thousands of miles and no issues -- so i do not understand the need to be ce complaint
can someone enlighten me

just our thoughts and opinions
chuck patty and svsoulmates
in port yasmine hammamet tunisia
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Old 30-10-2013, 08:15   #8
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

Get the technology you feel comfortable with.

Maybe you can opt out of SSB and employ some other means that are CE marked?

b.
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Old 30-10-2013, 08:16   #9
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

Furuno is a beauty. Codan Envoy is so crazy cool I don't know what it is (but USB no so cool, I'm hoping to run an iOS not Windows-powered boat).

SailCom Marine (thanks Dockhead) pointed to following benefits of the 801E over the 802:
- DC isolated for more reliable power & reduced electrolysis
- Fully sealed so no concerns about condensation. An 802 might do fine for many years depending on how close it is to the kettle.

Am going with the 801E unit, amortized over the 40 years I plan on keeping this thing it's not much more . Thanks all for ideas!

Regards,
Bunt
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Old 30-10-2013, 09:10   #10
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunt View Post
Furuno is a beauty. Codan Envoy is so crazy cool I don't know what it is (but USB no so cool, I'm hoping to run an iOS not Windows-powered boat).

SailCom Marine (thanks Dockhead) pointed to following benefits of the 801E over the 802:
- DC isolated for more reliable power & reduced electrolysis
- Fully sealed so no concerns about condensation. An 802 might do fine for many years depending on how close it is to the kettle.

Am going with the 801E unit, amortized over the 40 years I plan on keeping this thing it's not much more . Thanks all for ideas!

Regards,
Bunt
Glad we were able to help!

The M802E is a beautiful radio! If you don't mind the cost (ouch!), you can't go wrong with that unit!

One more tip -- get your ham radio license so you will be able to use your new radio on the ham bands. With a ham license, you will also be able to use free email using WinLink. If you are an American citizen, you will need to do the Extra Class license in order to have reciprocity in CEPT countries (nearly the whole world excluding the U.S.). I sat for all three U.S. licenses (Technician, General, Extra) in one go and passed all three after a very intense long weekend of study, so it is not an unreasonable investment of time.

If you are in the UK, you get the CEPT license directly, which is then valid almost everywhere.

Good luck!
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Old 30-10-2013, 13:30   #11
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckr View Post
from a usa sailor find this interesting -- what i find more interesting is that you need a 2nd antenna for dsc with an 801 -- sail down here to tunisia and get an 802 --
The 802 requires a 2nd antenna for DSC also. Check the manual and your radio (the black box, not the control head).
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Old 04-11-2013, 13:51   #12
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

Bunt,
A few addition things to be aware of...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunt View Post
SailCom Marine (thanks Dockhead) pointed to following benefits of the 801E over the 802:
- DC isolated for more reliable power & reduced electrolysis
- Fully sealed so no concerns about condensation. An 802 might do fine for many years depending on how close it is to the kettle.

Am going with the 801E unit, amortized over the 40 years I plan on keeping this thing it's not much more .
1) As far as I know, since the late 2000's (2007/2008) all Icom remote tuners (AT-130, AT-140, and AT-141) have had their RF Ground connection DC isolated....
(So there would be no difference there...)

2) You will NOT install / connect any "RF Ground Strap" between the transceiver (neither M-802 or M-801E) and antenna tuner unit, nor to the vessel's RF Ground / Antenna Ground system...despite what the manual says...
The only RF Ground connection should be at the remote tuner's "grd" lug...
(Here again there would be no difference...)

3) DC negative ground has not been a cause of any electrolysis problems on any vessels that I'm aware of....and I've been using/installing HF radios on-board for almost 40 years now....
(So, unless you have an aluminum hull. here again I would have no worries...alum hulled boats are different!!)

4) No argument that the M-801E is better suited to a harsh environment and is probably even "splash-proof"....but as long as you keep the main transceiver unit away from direct spray / water / etc....the humid sea air will not cause any issues for an M-802....
(But, if you are really thinking that you're going to be using the same radio 40 years from know....you are a fine man, and one after my own heart...as I have some ham radios at home, on-shore, that I still use regularly, and still work better than many of the pricey new radios....and one of them I bought new in 1977/78, over 35 years ago!!!
But, understand that is an exception and not the rule!!!)

5) If you choose the M-801E, PLEASE confirm with the seller that the radio is "opened-up" for all-band transmit, as the factory-stock M-801E supposedly is NOT capable of transmitting on the ham radio frequencies (with the exception of 160m and 17m)


6) Which ever model you choose, you should have a look at the operating / programming videos I posted earlier...they will help explain what the manual is quite inept at...
Icom M-802 Instr Videos(basic-adv) & LIVE DSC-Distress Call



7) And, should you wish to read the M-801E manual....here it is...
http://www.icom-australia.com/produc...n%20Manual.pdf

And, click the link to the "Instruction Manual" here, M-802 manual...
IC-M802 HF Marine Transceiver - Features - Icom America



I do hope this helps...

Fair winds..

John
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Old 22-12-2013, 00:01   #13
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

Hey,
I am back from the ARC 2013 with our supporter work for communication.
The most sailorīs use The IC-M802.

best regards Joerg
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Old 05-01-2014, 14:52   #14
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Re: Which SSB for new yacht

Hi ka4wja thanks very much for that. $-flow issues have put the SSB off for another month or two but your notes will come in handy when we get to the install. Cheers, Brent
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